Remind you of anything?

[KPM]

Good points Robert. But the San Sik in PSWCK are not meant to be practiced with just one repetition each. When I practice them solo I will do multiple repetitions of each at various speeds before moving on to the next one. They can also be practiced as each flowing seamlessly into the next one, just like any other longer form. I pointed this out to Hendrik on multiple occasions in the past. If the SNT form as essentially multiple San Siks in sequence develops "gong", why wouldn't those same sequences broken out individually and practiced as I described not also develop "gong"? But Hendrik would hear none of that.

[Hendrik]

Good points Robert. But the San Sik in PSWCK are not meant to be practiced with just one repetition each. When I practice them solo I will do multiple repetitions of each at various speeds before moving on to the next one. They can also be practiced as each flowing seamlessly into the next one, just like any other longer form. I pointed this out to Hendrik on multiple occasions in the past. If the SNT form as essentially multiple San Siks in sequence develops "gong", why wouldn't those same sequences broken out individually and practiced as I described not also develop "gong"? But Hendrik would hear none of that.

OK , to the point technically on gong,


1, why is it one can not accept the chinese definition of sanSik is strictly means application scenario? And have to redefine SanSik ?
Such as a cup is called a plate because one likes it?

2. Have you ever seen anyone who practice sanSik enter into the level 1 of SNTgong? Or equivalent?
Not talking advance gong, just level 1of SNTgong.

[chusauli]

Good points Robert. But the San Sik in PSWCK are not meant to be practiced with just one repetition each. When I practice them solo I will do multiple repetitions of each at various speeds before moving on to the next one. They can also be practiced as each flowing seamlessly into the next one, just like any other longer form. I pointed this out to Hendrik on multiple occasions in the past. If the SNT form as essentially multiple San Siks in sequence develops "gong", why wouldn't those same sequences broken out individually and practiced as I described not also develop "gong"? But Hendrik would hear none of that.

Keith,

If you strung them together, they would be a form, and not "San Sik". The sequence allows a certain flow and timing, not quite the same as what you are saying.

Look at Hatha Yoga with individual asanas vs. Viniyasa Yoga flow sets. In the synergism of the asanas in Viniyasa, they're not quite the same as individual asanas. Its like individual herbs vs. a Rx of Herbs.

Hope this helps.

[Minghequan]

Hendrik, You post a link to a post stating that Sifu Lee Kong said this and that and a nice little photo. Great! But let's examine who you attribute that quote to ... Sergio!!!

Sergio who it has been proven beyond a doubt has made so many twists and turns in his own "Wing Chun" journey that he doesn't know if he's coming or going! Remember his Weng Chun days, his "Black Flag" is the one statements! And you Hendrik want me to believe he's telling the truth??? Good God Hendrik ... if this is the best you can come up with then your just as gullible as Sergio thinks the rest of the world is!

I'm not interested in your hearsay. What Sifu Lee Kong has said about you is straight down the line .... that my lost little buddy is something you can't refute or deny! Sifu Lee Kong is known as WuLam Iron Pen" 武林鐵筆 meaning he deals with facts not fantasy like You and Sergio!

You do know that Sergio has been trying to distance himself from you since you started posting his Youtube vids don't you? Ask why he has not posted a "True Wing Chun History Part 3".

Hendrik all you are doing is "blowing water 吹水"

Just so one such as even you can grasp this, once again.........................

"Lee Kong said you are a mouse, who likes to take things from others and that you should be ignored completely"

Originally Posted by dlcox View Post
[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Hendrik you and your associates are nothing more than a band of diseased self serving WH0RES who prostitute Wing Chun in an attempt to secure a legacy. You should hang your heads in shame for the disgrace you cause. Hendrik you have taken and recieved bits of information from here and there and re-wrote them to coincide with your understanding. Formulated a "new" theory based upon already exsisting and legitimate ones only to claim it as your own. Presented yourself as a humble historian all the while leading the misguided and uneducated down a path of your design. You are the soul engineer of this whole charade and have used mis-information and suggestion to propagate your understanding of Wing Chun to the ignorant. You have spoon fed and stroked the egos of of those who are willing to support your claims simply so that they can exploit the uneducated and elevate their status. For many years you haved touted this theory with the fervor of a religious zealot in the hopes that if this lie is repeated enough times it will be recieved as truth and you will be remembered in Wing Chun history as the one who revealed it's lost secret past. You have manipulated and reinterpreted ancestral documents and historical legends to suit your needs. With the deft hand of a magician you have used misdirection as a means to keep everyone from looking up your sleeve. There are a few of us left who will not let you and your associates ruin what little bit of dignity is left in Wing Chun. You and your associates have sullied the good reputation of Wing Chun with your flagrant disregard of others traditions and beliefs. You and your kind offer nothing of use to the art you only take away. Deciet and lies reveal your intentions to secure a legacy that you and your associates do not deserve. Your behavior bellies your education in the art of Wing Chun. It is clear that neither you or your associates have learned Wing Chun in any depth. This is why you go outside the art and make tenuous links to secrect skills, forgotton knowledge and lost history. You have burned bridges, urinated on tradition and spit in the faces of all the ancestors that have suffered in order to pass on their methods to the next generation with your propaganda. There is no lost aspect no missing piece as much as you may want to believe. You and anyone who supports your agenda are ignorant oppertunists who do nothing but cause confusion and dissention. You offer nothing of value to the art of Wing Chun you only degrade it.

[KPM]

Keith,

If you strung them together, they would be a form, and not "San Sik". The sequence allows a certain flow and timing, not quite the same as what you are saying.

Look at Hatha Yoga with individual asanas vs. Viniyasa Yoga flow sets. In the synergism of the asanas in Viniyasa, they're not quite the same as individual asanas. Its like individual herbs vs. a Rx of Herbs.

Hope this helps.

I do see what you are saying Robert. Yet in the SLT form, each section is punctuated and separated by bringing both hands back chambered at the chest with a slight pause. How does that affect the flow and timing? To me, that seems to separate out the sections just as if you were practicing them as an individual San Sik. On the other hand, as I pointed out, in PSWCK one way to practice the San Sik is too string them together in a continuous sequence. So again, maybe I am missing something, but I still fail to see how what we do in PSWCK is any different.....how what we do is "incomplete", and how what we do does not develop any "gong."

[KPM]

1, why is it one can not accept the chinese definition of sanSik is strictly means application scenario? And have to redefine SanSik ?
Such as a cup is called a plate because one likes it?


Maybe you are right Hendrik. Maybe "San Sik" is not the proper term. Henry Mui doesn't seem to like that term. But the terminology is irrelevant. I've described how we train in PSWCK in a fair amount of detail on multiple occasions here.

[zuti car]

I do see what you are saying Robert. Yet in the SLT form, each section is punctuated and separated by bringing both hands back chambered at the chest with a slight pause. How does that affect the flow and timing? To me, that seems to separate out the sections just as if you were practicing them as an individual San Sik. On the other hand, as I pointed out, in PSWCK one way to practice the San Sik is too string them together in a continuous sequence. So again, maybe I am missing something, but I still fail to see how what we do in PSWCK is any different.....how what we do is "incomplete", and how what we do does not develop any "gong."

There is nothing wrong with your style . About gong ,depends what definition of gong you are using . If gong refers to some mystical energy that suppose to give super powers , in that case you will not develop anything , if not , you have it .

[deejaye72]

I do see what you are saying Robert. Yet in the SLT form, each section is punctuated and separated by bringing both hands back chambered at the chest with a slight pause. How does that affect the flow and timing? To me, that seems to separate out the sections just as if you were practicing them as an individual San Sik. On the other hand, as I pointed out, in PSWCK one way to practice the San Sik is too string them together in a continuous sequence. So again, maybe I am missing something, but I still fail to see how what we do in PSWCK is any different.....how what we do is "incomplete", and how what we do does not develop any "gong."

you made a good point!

[Hendrik]

I do see what you are saying Robert. Yet in the SLT form, each section is punctuated and separated by bringing both hands back chambered at the chest with a slight pause. How does that affect the flow and timing? To me, that seems to separate out the sections just as if you were practicing them as an individual San Sik. On the other hand, as I pointed out, in PSWCK one way to practice the San Sik is too string them together in a continuous sequence. So again, maybe I am missing something, but I still fail to see how what we do in PSWCK is any different.....how what we do is "incomplete", and how what we do does not develop any "gong."

It is actually very simple,

Find out what is the training which lead one into the equivalent of SNT gong level one development


That is the gong practice . Here on, call it gong, dont call it san sik because it is a wrong naming.




Gong is a conditioning set. Not a fighting scenario set. Gong set has its sequence , say there are the arms conditioning, leg conditioning, the seven bows conditioning. It is not a link of different San sik but a holistic design to go through every part of the body intended to be develop.



A simple example

from hung gar, the iron wire is gong set , not San sik . It has its design in different elements .
Not a set make up by linking fighting scenerio.


Another simple example from Chen taiji,

The reel silk set is the gong set. Not San sik, not a set make up by linking fighting scenerios.

It has its design , sequence, focus on different part of body or limbs condition and force handling , but not fighting scenerio .



Wck gong set is SNT. The reason and big deal on why the white crane and emei mother arts finding is to make sure one fulling know the design to develop Wck type of gong to support its San sik.

[Hendrik]

Gong is the biomechanics development drill which tailor to support a specific style

San sik is the fighting scenario or example of a specific style , which concern on technics and timing with an assumption of having the Gong to support its biomechanics needs.


As the famous saying

Practice Fist ( San sik) not practice Gong, when one age, one becomes an empty based.
(Because at young age one can effort brute force supporting the execution of the San sik's even if it is very in efficient use of biomechanics at old age one doesn't have that luxury )

Traditional Chinese martial art system all comes with both. Other wise it is incomplete .


It is known in ancient Chinese tradition that Gong is only taught to inner circle to purposely to control the art. Those who doesn't have the required biomechanics develop will either has low effective in their San sik or cannot operate the San sik effectively.


It is general in traditional Chinese martial art that. It is
A simple thing, if one is looking to understand how things work, however,
it will become a complex thing if one is trying to protect ones ego on an incomplete art with lots of or un ended arguements.

For example , As we can see many external Chinese martial art stylist argue with taiji people saying they have fajing too. Which every train eyes know , their biomechanics cannot deliver the type of Jin the taiji reel silk gong develop. Because the external art guys doesn't have the gong , even worse, sometimes they not aware of such biomechanics conditioning exist.



So, what is the big deal I keep bring up snake slide technology of emei? Because the advance inner art players can read gong signature. Or how the sequence of the seven bows operate. They know if one is cheating. And also, Wck needs the snake slide high acceleration short distance power to support its inner gate center line capture San sik.

One can see, as soon as one lost the high acceleration short distance power, one will not be able to play inner gate center line capture but force out. Or one cannot play zheng San . One needs the snt to develop the inner gate play power, And within snt the technology is the emei snake slide joints handling . This simple .

[Minghequan]

Hendrik wrote:

More details will resale as to public in the future.


http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...01#post1268301


What do you have? Beside joining the Hendrik smearing team ?

You wrote: "More details will RESALE as to public in the future" WTF? Is that a Freudian slip Hendrick??? "RE$ALE" to the public!

I have the truth Hendrik and you know I do hence you trying to put me down unsuccessfully.

Secondly I have White Crane Gongfu ..... you don't!

Hendrik can Sergio and Sunny CERTIFY the claims that they have attributed to Sifu Lee Kong??? I mean real and factual claims not some stunt photo???

By this I don't mean "Sunny told me that Sergio told me that Sifu Lee Kong said" Rubbish! I mean the actual real and verifiable Facts!

I ask this of you now Hendrik and I await your reply!!!

[Minghequan]

Again for all to see ...............

Originally Posted by dlcox View Post
[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]Hendrik you and your associates are nothing more than a band of diseased self serving WH0RES who prostitute Wing Chun in an attempt to secure a legacy. You should hang your heads in shame for the disgrace you cause. Hendrik you have taken and recieved bits of information from here and there and re-wrote them to coincide with your understanding. Formulated a "new" theory based upon already exsisting and legitimate ones only to claim it as your own. Presented yourself as a humble historian all the while leading the misguided and uneducated down a path of your design. You are the soul engineer of this whole charade and have used mis-information and suggestion to propagate your understanding of Wing Chun to the ignorant. You have spoon fed and stroked the egos of of those who are willing to support your claims simply so that they can exploit the uneducated and elevate their status. For many years you haved touted this theory with the fervor of a religious zealot in the hopes that if this lie is repeated enough times it will be recieved as truth and you will be remembered in Wing Chun history as the one who revealed it's lost secret past. You have manipulated and reinterpreted ancestral documents and historical legends to suit your needs. With the deft hand of a magician you have used misdirection as a means to keep everyone from looking up your sleeve. There are a few of us left who will not let you and your associates ruin what little bit of dignity is left in Wing Chun. You and your associates have sullied the good reputation of Wing Chun with your flagrant disregard of others traditions and beliefs. You and your kind offer nothing of use to the art you only take away. Deciet and lies reveal your intentions to secure a legacy that you and your associates do not deserve. Your behavior bellies your education in the art of Wing Chun. It is clear that neither you or your associates have learned Wing Chun in any depth. This is why you go outside the art and make tenuous links to secrect skills, forgotton knowledge and lost history. You have burned bridges, urinated on tradition and spit in the faces of all the ancestors that have suffered in order to pass on their methods to the next generation with your propaganda. There is no lost aspect no missing piece as much as you may want to believe. You and anyone who supports your agenda are ignorant oppertunists who do nothing but cause confusion and dissention. You offer nothing of value to the art of Wing Chun you only degrade it.

[KPM]

Wck gong set is SNT. The reason and big deal on why the white crane and emei mother arts finding is to make sure one fulling know the design to develop Wck type of gong to support its San sik.

So Hendrik, are you saying that Leung Jan didn't know about gong development when he retired to Ku Lo village and chose to teach Wing Chun in the format he did (whether you call it San Sik or not) rather than teach the SNT form as a whole?

[Vajramusti]

So Hendrik, are you saying that Leung Jan didn't know about gong development when he retired to Ku Lo village and chose to teach Wing Chun in the format he did (whether you call it San Sik or not) rather than teach the SNT form as a whole?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not think that Hendrik said anything about Dr. Leung Jan not knowing about gong development.
His comments were limited to the meaning of san sik and that san sik and gong development are
not the same thing.

[KPM]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not think that Hendrik said anything about Dr. Leung Jan not knowing about gong development.
His comments were limited to the meaning of san sik and that san sik and gong development are
not the same thing.

He may not have said it. But that is the clear implication. But he won't admit to that either. He has said that PSWCK is incomplete because it does not train the full SNT form. He has said that without the full SNT form one cannot develop gong. Leung Jan did not teach the full SNT form when he retired to Ku Lo village. But he did teach Wing Chun! So...... what are we left to conclude by Hendrik's reasoning? Hendrik is suggesting that what Leung Jan taught when he retired to Ku Lo is incomplete and lacks in any gong training. Do you reach a different conclusion Joy?