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Thread: Should a Person Just Practice the Pole if there a old man ?

  1. #1
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    Should a Person Just Practice the Pole if there a old man ?

    Should a person just practice the Wing Chun pole or other kung fu pole techniques and forms if there a old man ? Instead of doing Kung Fu systems that they could not use in selfdefense ?

  2. #2
    People are just that .... they are individuals and should practice, learn, express what suits them best and not that defined by a system, Association or style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    Should a person just practice the Wing Chun pole or other kung fu pole techniques and forms if there a old man ? Instead of doing Kung Fu systems that they could not use in selfdefense ?
    Define "old". I'm 59, got my BJJ black belt last year, and expect to be doing it well into my seventies at least.

    If your premise is that one's primary aim is self defense, the pole might not be your best choice - it's not that easy to take a long pole on public transport, on a bike, on a plane, etc.

    Self defense IMO includes defending yourself against lifestyle related heart disease. You need some sort of weight bearing exercise and something to get you breathing hard at a minimum. Not sure the pole fits best.

    If your concern is defense against violent assaults (which you are FAR less likely to die from than lifestyle related diseases or old age) a gun or combat folder might be a more practical weapon. Neither require a lot of fitness or strength to seriously damage another person.

    Women don't get old in your universe, huh?
    Last edited by anerlich; 05-21-2014 at 10:43 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?
    Maybe better to learn to use a walking stick as a weapon ... La Canne being one of many methodologies. Maybe jo.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?
    Escrima/Kali is your best bet if you are going to be carrying around a cane.

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    I’m 50 years old; and I’ll walk with a stick and blade all the time (when walking the dogs) in my neighborhood. But, while in the city, I prefer carrying something that would spin you in a circle and knock you straight on your a$$, but he’s right; “Kali would be the way to go”.


    Take care,
    Last edited by Ali. R; 05-22-2014 at 08:40 AM.

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    One can have a walking stick of Jo length when out and about hiking and walking around town and such without most people noticing. And a Jo length stick can be adapted to some WCK pole techniques fairly well. But if you are really worried about something for self-defense at all times, a tactical folder makes the most sense.

    Firehawk, I'm not sure what you are asking with your old man practicing question. Are you concerned about it affects health, or usefulness for fighting and self-defense?

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    Kpm Guys

    What i mean when you get to a certain old age you just dont seem to do what young people or 40 or 68 year old people can do with martial arts in selfdefense I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?
    Last edited by Firehawk4; 05-22-2014 at 07:10 PM. Reason: grammar

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    I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?
    I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    What i mean when you get to a certain old age you just dont seem to do what young people or 40 or 68 year old people can do with martial arts in selfdefense I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?
    I agree that certain martial arts that are based on athleticism...strength and speed...will start to fail you in old age as these physical attributes decline. Its always been a theory of mine that if Bruce Lee was still around his personal martial art would start looking more and more like WCK again as his physical attributes started to decline with age. Martial arts that depend more on timing and positioning seem to me to have better longevity. Helio Gracie was rolling and teaching BJJ well into his 80's. There are plenty of aging Sifu's that are 1st generation Yip Man students still going strong and teaching.

    But I also tend to agree with what Andrew said:
    I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.

    A young, strong, ruthless, committed attacker that isn't interested in a fair fight is going to be very hard for ANYONE to deal with. Especially as your own strength and speed and reaction times decline with age.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    Lets see old maybe 75 and older . Would a staff or a Japanese jo Staff be better for old people than the long pole in seldefense in very violent assaults ?
    Look to the elderly Phillipino gentlemen for examples here. Cane plus escrima/kali. Plenty of gentlemen in this category have put down young punks for years.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.
    Research shows it's hard to get a gun into action from inside 20 feet either. We did an exercise in CCW (concealed carry weapons) certification where you draw and dry fire a sidearm and compete against a guy 20 feet away. His goal - sprint towards you and touch you. Your goal - one click before the touch.

    I lost every time. I would say every normal police officer around me who normally only fires a handgun once a month at a range to qualify it would probably fail most of the time too.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    I agree that certain martial arts that are based on athleticism...strength and speed...will start to fail you in old age as these physical attributes decline.
    All fighting arts every single one relies on athleticism and conditioning there is no way around it.

    Its always been a theory of mine that if Bruce Lee was still around his personal martial art would start looking more and more like WCK again as his physical attributes started to decline with age. Martial arts that depend more on timing and positioning seem to me to have better longevity. Helio Gracie was rolling and teaching BJJ well into his 80's. There are plenty of aging Sifu's that are 1st generation Yip Man students still going strong and teaching.
    Helio may have been rolling into his 80s but his performance level was much much much lower than when he was younger. Yes yes there are lots of older guys teaching but that is very very very different thing than the level they are able to use their art at.

    The truth is your physical performance level is going to decline as you get older and that is true in something as non intense as golf and even more true in martial arts and other things that are extremely high intensity.

    But I also tend to agree with what Andrew said:
    I'm not convinced Wing Chun (or just about anything else) would work for most people against a ruthless, committed attacker in such situations either.

    A young, strong, ruthless, committed attacker that isn't interested in a fair fight is going to be very hard for ANYONE to deal with. Especially as your own strength and speed and reaction times decline with age.
    Any ones performance level is going to depend on their current level of conditioning. The reality is that you are only as good as your conditioning level. Yes attributes and skill decline with age so what matters is where you were level wise when your decline began. A 70 year old Jack Dempsey knocked out 2 much younger guys who tried to mug him. Even with a decline his performance level was way beyond the average joe.

    There is even a kuit that says that if you do not work hard when you are young you will have nothing when you are old.

    Btw from a LEO perspective I think carrying weapons from knives to sticks and even guns is asking for trouble and is a really bad idea. Real self defense is living a healthy and smart lifestyle. Most people never are attacked never have fights and so forth because they avoid trouble and the places and people who cause it. Weapons cause more problems than they solve and are mainly security blankets that make scared people falsely feel more secure.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Firehawk4 View Post
    What i mean when you get to a certain old age you just dont seem to do what young people or 40 or 68 year old people can do with martial arts in selfdefense I mean makeing Muay Thaiboxing or Ultimate fighting systems and other Martial arts work for someone who is 75 and older it does nt seem like they could do these martial arts and other Arts in selfdefense at a old age at 75 or older what about when you are 90 and you are assaulted and attacked what is a person to do to fight off there attacker ?
    I've heard of several instances of former boxers in their 70's successfully defending against, (beating down) muggers, or people that broke into their house. This isn't the norm, of course, but it stands to reason if you spent decades fighting, training and conditioning, you would have better chances in your old age then one who hasn't. Of course time eventually takes strength and athleticism from everyone, but some people lose it at 40, some closer to 80....I have a hard time imagining a 90 year old doing well against a reasonably fit 30 year old in any self defense situation...but I'm sure there's some exception to prove the rule.

    At any rate, I got to agree with TC101, no martial art works for real that isn't based on athleticism and conditioning. The misconception is that TCMA wasn't based on these attributes. It's simply not true.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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