The Way Forward

[Minghequan]

Really guys! This is the best you can do?

This is the best you can be?

Is it any wonder our arts are in decline?

Maybe not in number and maybe not in popularity but most certainly in ethics, integrity, essence and spirit.

Makes one ashamed to be a "Martial Artist"

This is not about Wing Chun, Hapkido, White Crane, JuJutsu, Mauy Thai, Karate, Judo, Capoeria, Taekwondo or South Mongolian Chicken Wrestling!!!

Its about the decay in spirit, in ethics in how we treat each other, how we respond to discussion and quite frankly I thought you would all be better than this but it seems I was wrong.

It seems you are all happy with the denigration of the arts and each other, happy with the bickering and Internet Pi#sing competitions, the c@ck measuring, the ego and self-importance and that this forum is beyond change for the better ..... I really thought you people would rise to this rather than more of the same.

Very disappointing!


Sad, Really Sad!

[Firehawk4]

I think alot of people just practice martial arts for compotition and selfdefense and dont practice budhhisim or follow some chinese or Japanese or Asian code of conduct rules like the moral laws of Shaolin that could be what part of the problem is .

[GlennR]

Honestly Glenn. I'm trying to get across a message that is falling on pretty deaf ears. That message, one that grumblegeezer also put out, was that the way forward is to treat each other with respect and not post in an inflammatory fashion. So thank you for being on board and calling me a whiney little b i t c h. Would you say that to my face? Like I said before, people here do NOT back each other up. Not even the Wing Chun regulars. You prove my point.

No, what ive proven is some people are more emotionally invested in this forum, and their opinions, than others.

Mate, its a Martial Arts Forum, not some quasi-religious ethics love group.

The whole "moving forward" thing is based on EVERYONE having the same view on what the forum is for, and that just isnt the case.

For me i log on for a laugh, a bit of banter, the occasional insight into WC (and other arts) and to try and come up with better smart a r s e comments than anerlich (thats hard in itself!!)
Oh, and to rubbish Hendrik and his nonsense.

But heres the thing, i dont lose any sleep about it, i dont start threads on moving forward and i certainly dont re title myself the "Mr Spock" on the forum.

So shoot me if im letting the "forum down"

[GlennR]

Really guys! This is the best you can do?

This is the best you can be?

Is it any wonder our arts are in decline?

Maybe not in number and maybe not in popularity but most certainly in ethics, integrity, essence and spirit.

Makes one ashamed to be a "Martial Artist"

This is not about Wing Chun, Hapkido, White Crane, JuJutsu, Mauy Thai, Karate, Judo, Capoeria, Taekwondo or South Mongolian Chicken Wrestling!!!

Its about the decay in spirit, in ethics in how we treat each other, how we respond to discussion and quite frankly I thought you would all be better than this but it seems I was wrong.

It seems you are all happy with the denigration of the arts and each other, happy with the bickering and Internet Pi#sing competitions, the c@ck measuring, the ego and self-importance and that this forum is beyond change for the better ..... I really thought you people would rise to this rather than more of the same.

Very disappointing!


Sad, Really Sad!

Ron, refer top my previous post

[anerlich]

For me i log on for a laugh, a bit of banter, the occasional insight into WC (and other arts) and to try and come up with better smart a r s e comments than anerlich (thats hard in itself!!)

GlennR, you are holding your own in the smartar$e comments stakes

This forum is not the weather vane for the state of MA or TCMA. What you see here has little to do with the state of anything out in the real world.

[anerlich]

I think alot of people just practice martial arts for compotition and selfdefense and dont practice budhhisim or follow some chinese or Japanese or Asian code of conduct rules like the moral laws of Shaolin that could be what part of the problem is .

I don't regard that as a problem. If you need an external code of conduct to know how to behave well something is wrong with you.

[KPM]

Really guys! This is the best you can do?

This is the best you can be?


Sad, Really Sad!

What do you want Ron? This thread started out talking about treating each other with respect and not posting things you wouldn't say face to face. Then people chime in that do exactly the opposite. I've been respectfully pointing this out to them, yet I still fall under heavy criticism and no one backs me up, not even you or grumblegeezer who had the same message. Do we sit back and let people ignore that message and feel justified in being rude and crass and disrespectful because "everyone is doing it" or because "I'm trying to make a point"??? Or do we speak out? I spoke out and look at the way even some of the Wing Chun regulars have responded. Calling me a "whiney b i t c h" simply because I continue to try to get the message across.

Again, it has become exceptionally clear that this is just an open discussion forum where people are free to post anything they want and say anything at all to people from behind a fake name and a keyboard. Its Ok to be a "smarta$$" for one's own amusement and to be just as rude and crass and disrepectful as you want to be. Don't you agree? So why are we making this effort? Nothing is going to change here. Why are you surprised Ron? Its obvious that no one has anything invested in this forum, emotionally or otherwise. No one really cares to clean things up or make things better. So be it. I'm done trying as well.

[KPM]

The whole "moving forward" thing is based on EVERYONE having the same view on what the forum is for, and that just isnt the case.

This is true. And when people don't even want to try and get on board with a better view of what the forum is for and how to behave here, nothing will ever change. Things are likely to just get worse.


But heres the thing, i dont lose any sleep about it, i dont start threads on moving forward and i certainly dont re title myself the "Mr Spock" on the forum.

But you are perfectly willing to post in threads on "moving forward" and take part in shooting down someone else's efforts. And "Spock" seems just as good as tc101, sanjuro ronin, firehawk4, vajramusti, etc to me.

So shoot me if im letting the "forum down"

No need. Again, you just prove my point that this is simply an open forum and not any kind of a community. You owe no one here any allegiance. No one here is your friend. Do and say anything you want. Be as rude and disrepectful as you want. There are no rules and no standards.

[Minghequan]

Okay since everyone else is "telling it like it is" I may as well do the same.

KPM I agree with you defending yourself. I never said no to this. Say your point, get it out there , let your detractors know and then let it be. If they choose to continue then less power to them! They will ultimately be seen for what they are "By their own words and behaviour let them be known"

As for who cares ... Well I do as this forum is whether if you like it or not, representative of the wider Martial Arts Community and in part representative of the Magazine and its ethics as it is the Kungfu Magazine Forum (just look at the logo above each page!). How long do you think the Magazine would last if everyone carried on like you guys??? Pathetic!



But its seems by and large I'm the only one.

So what do I see?

A bunch of whinger, martial arts politicians, people with major ego issues and a chip on each shoulder (Well-Balanced?).

People who really don't give a Sh#t about the arts but who in the main only give a Sh#t about their own pathetic "Point-Scoring" and self images.

I see gutless people not willing to put their names behind their posts.

I see "Sh#ts-Stirrers" who exist for just that!

I see people who spend more time training the "Keyboard-Fu" then actually training the Martial Arts! (One only has to see the amount of times and speed in which they post!)

Man I wouldn't want to train with just about most of you as your too far removed from the ethics of the martial arts and if you run your schools like you run your mouths here, then I'd run, not walk, but run as fast and as far as I could to get away from you and your schools!

Don't want to raise the bar? Don't want to at least suck it up, put your own feelings and self-importance aside and actually make a effort to at the very least improve this board even in only a small way? Fine! Your choice.

But don't tell me your Martial Artists who care about the Martial Arts and those who may choose to study with you as you most definitely are not!

So off you all go! Have at it! Go on, have another go at me too (you won't be able to control yourselves!) ....., Go on, put me down for the lowest you can! If it makes you feel like the "Better Person" then hit, whine, whinge, swear, carry-on, put-down, call names, bully and do your best to make a point as if that is all that matters!

But don't call what you do Martial Arts!

[sanjuro_ronin]

You guys don't seem to get it and I can understand that because you are looking from the inside out and have a very vested interest in being right and everyone else being wrong.
It's like when someone makes a thread showing their Sifu or someone they think has the "real WC" and as soon as it gets even a LITTLE bit criticized, they delete the thread.
MA "WUDE" or "BUSHIDO" or any other code is about honesty, about being self-critical and calling a " spade a spade".
Disregard what I have said, that's fine.
It won't change that the fact this forum has all the troubles that it has ( and the other forums don't even have 1/4 of the drama) is outlined in the reasons I spelled out.
YOU guys are the problem because you have ultior motives and agendas to push your WC as THE WC and everyone else's is "wrong".
THAT is the SOURCE of the problem and the manifestation of it is when you guys act like whiny little school girls when you are called on your BS.
Until you accept that is the problem and grow up, it won't change.

That is the last I will say on this matter, other than this:
I am so tempted to ask Gene for moderating powers on this forum because you guys SO DESERVE to get a taste of zero tolerance.
Sihing is just to nice to you guys and Gene and David think you all have mental problems, so...

[Minghequan]

I am so tempted to ask Gene for moderating powers on this forum because you guys SO DESERVE to get a taste of zero tolerance.

Please, please do so. I think that is not just what the Wing Chun forum needs but the whole forum!

[Vajramusti]

GlennR, you are holding your own in the smartar$e comments stakes

This forum is not the weather vane for the state of MA or TCMA. What you see here has little to do with the state of anything out in the real world.

------------------------------------------------------

True

[Wayfaring]

Please, please do so. I think that is not just what the Wing Chun forum needs but the whole forum!

A few years back I actually talked with Gene and Dave about NOT doing this. The reason why is because right now this is an accurate reflection of the wing chun community. People DO have the illusions their WCK is the best, oldest, most original, most close to the monks, etc. So if you layer on top an artificial niceness in a community, all that is going to do is make it inauthentic along with causing someone a whole lot of work. Then comes the bickering over rules and interpretation, then banning, then people leaving, etc. After all is said and done you may have one lineage or two left, all enthused over their newfound soapbox opportunity, and nobody else has the energy to even interact due to rules. I believe that the net effect of more strict moderation here would be people would leave and not participate anymore.

[Wayfaring]

You guys don't seem to get it and I can understand that because you are looking from the inside out and have a very vested interest in being right and everyone else being wrong.
It's like when someone makes a thread showing their Sifu or someone they think has the "real WC" and as soon as it gets even a LITTLE bit criticized, they delete the thread.
MA "WUDE" or "BUSHIDO" or any other code is about honesty, about being self-critical and calling a " spade a spade".

Yes, a code is meant to be self applied, not meant to run your mouth about how others aren't applying it.

Disregard what I have said, that's fine.
It won't change that the fact this forum has all the troubles that it has ( and the other forums don't even have 1/4 of the drama) is outlined in the reasons I spelled out.
YOU guys are the problem because you have ultior motives and agendas to push your WC as THE WC and everyone else's is "wrong".
THAT is the SOURCE of the problem and the manifestation of it is when you guys act like whiny little school girls when you are called on your BS.
Until you accept that is the problem and grow up, it won't change.

"don't even have 1/4 the drama" is kind. This forum is so much of a train wreck, it attracts look-a-loos, just like the ones that drive by an accident real slow. Look at the view to post ratio of this forum and compare to elsewhere.

yes YOU GUYS or US GUYS are the problem. However forcing people to grow up with more stringent rules is not the answer.

That is the last I will say on this matter, other than this:
I am so tempted to ask Gene for moderating powers on this forum because you guys SO DESERVE to get a taste of zero tolerance.
Sihing is just to nice to you guys and Gene and David think you all have mental problems, so...

If you give in to that temptation then you are an idiot. Go be a big brother or sister or rescue an animal from being put down if you have time on your hands.

[sanjuro_ronin]

A few years back I actually talked with Gene and Dave about NOT doing this. The reason why is because right now this is an accurate reflection of the wing chun community. People DO have the illusions their WCK is the best, oldest, most original, most close to the monks, etc. So if you layer on top an artificial niceness in a community, all that is going to do is make it inauthentic along with causing someone a whole lot of work. Then comes the bickering over rules and interpretation, then banning, then people leaving, etc. After all is said and done you may have one lineage or two left, all enthused over their newfound soapbox opportunity, and nobody else has the energy to even interact due to rules. I believe that the net effect of more strict moderation here would be people would leave and not participate anymore.

Don't worry, none of us moderators are crazy enough to tackle the girls in the WC forum