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Thread: Vaccine study finds no link to autism

  1. #1
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    Vaccine study finds no link to autism

    Good news to all those anti-vaccine folks out there. You can now vaccinate your children again because there is NO link to autism. A study of over a million kids is a huge sample group so once again, I'm going with the science on this one.

    http://guardianlv.com/2014/05/meta-a...es-and-autism/

  2. #2
    Vaccinate your kids people. Memory is short, and when you are dealing with time scale that spans generations, memory is down right embarrassing.

    Let's say for arguments sake that vaccines do cause harm(relax, just for arguments sake ). The number I see most is 1 in 100. Get on google and find out what the child mortality rate was before vaccines were wide spread. It's a good trade. And considering the FACT that they don't cause autism and bad batches are quite rare, it's an amazing trade.

    Not vaccinating your kids is ignorant and selfish. You do harm to the community as a whole by keeping your head that far up your own ass. I understand that it is hard for a parent to deal with an autistic child, especially in the case of regressive autism and that they search for answers. But you can't allow your emotions to overpower your good sense when the damage caused by not using vaccines is potentially earth shattering. I am so tired of hearing people talk about freedom and choice in this respect. As if it's simply their risk to take. These people have absolutely no idea as to the scope of the problems that are already popping up due to this ridiculous movement. Your guru should be tossed into a deep dark hole for the damage he has caused.

  3. #3
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    Ditto.
    I have been in countries where there is no vaccination program.
    Not places you would want to live in.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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    Now this is rich... the top comment on the article that GoldenBrain linked by a Dr. J Smythe: (thank you dr. smythe.)

    “Science denial”? Look at who came up with that term, sociologists. There’s a valid science for you… Based on the concepts of political correctness and the denial of objective truth.

    Then they use the concepts of “global warming” and “evolution” – both of which have been scientifically disproven, so they try to use the term “climate change” and Darwinian evolution is just touted as “fact” even though it is nothing more than a mere theory. A theory that if questioned those who do so are merely ridiculed to help shame them back into the status quo.

    Whatever happened to true critical (criterion based) thinking … ?

    That’s right, that went out when subjectivism became the fad." (end quote).



    Anywhooz, back to the thread at hand: I am not going to say anything for or against vaccinations. But I do have questions- at what age should children be vaccinated? How often? (is it subjective or is there a general consensus?) And Sanjuro Ronin, what counties if you don't mind were you at?
    Thnx.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarathonTmatt View Post
    Now this is rich... the top comment on the article that GoldenBrain linked by a Dr. J Smythe: (thank you dr. smythe.)

    “Science denial”? Look at who came up with that term, sociologists. There’s a valid science for you… Based on the concepts of political correctness and the denial of objective truth.

    Then they use the concepts of “global warming” and “evolution” – both of which have been scientifically disproven, so they try to use the term “climate change” and Darwinian evolution is just touted as “fact” even though it is nothing more than a mere theory. A theory that if questioned those who do so are merely ridiculed to help shame them back into the status quo.

    Whatever happened to true critical (criterion based) thinking … ?

    That’s right, that went out when subjectivism became the fad." (end quote).



    Anywhooz, back to the thread at hand: I am not going to say anything for or against vaccinations. But I do have questions- at what age should children be vaccinated? How often? (is it subjective or is there a general consensus?) And Sanjuro Ronin, what counties if you don't mind were you at?
    Thnx.

    I wasn't aware that either evolution or global warming has been scientifically disproven. Without going deep into the global warming debate I'll just point out one part of it. The carbon dioxide in the air today is as high by percentage than at any other time in history except for several of the major extinction events. The problem is, at present there are no super volcanos erupting or extremely large asteroids slamming into the earth causing world wide fires, which in the past is what increased the carbon dioxide. In fact, other than man, there is not a very good explanation for the increase in carbon dioxide today. If you have an alternate theory I'm all ears. One of the arguments I hear all the time is that scientists get money in grants for keeping the global warming scare alive. I'll point out another bit of info. Many scientists who have peer reviewed the climate change studies have no vested interest in the money flow from said climate change because they don't even work in the climatology field. Neil Degrass Tyson is one of those uber intelligent scientists. He's an astrophysicist which is the field where is money comes from, other than being the director of the the National Museum of Science, his books and of course the awesome show Cosmos...etc.

    As far as evolution is concerned, I'll just allow Richard Dawkins to speak for me. "Evolution could so easily be disproved if even a single fossil turned up in the wrong date order. Evolution has passed this test with flying colors." ~ Richard Dawkins.

    Now to answer your vaccine question. As you know, hopefully you know, there are many major diseases that vaccines address such as polio, measles, mumps, rubella...etc., so the following schedule is designed to deal with these in a way that the body can tolerate. That's why they don't give children all these vaccines at once. The schedule is something like this, although my wife or professor Google could probably get you an exact answer. From birth children receive vaccinations monthly for the first six months. After that every three months or so until they are twelve months old, and then yearly for the next seven to ten years. The major vaccines are complete by three to five years. The remaining years are maintenance and boosters.

    I know you haven't been vaccinated at all, or regularly, based on what you've said. I hope I got that right because I really hate to make assumptions. So, you my friend are fortunate that you live in a country where regular vaccinations have all but wiped out the major diseases, or you may not be here today. If you visited one of the countries that Sanjuro is referring to then it wouldn't take very long for you to get very sick. Just look at what happened to the many tribes of North and South America when they first encountered Europeans. They, unfortunately hadn't yet EVOLVED the necessary immunity to these new diseases. Another thing is that the people who are most negatively affected by vaccines would be the worst affected if they actually got the disease. Take chicken pocks for instance. Not a big one right? Well, that's actually not true. There are many children who contract chicken pocks that end up hospitalized with brain swelling and other terrible symptoms up to and including death. It's these children, who are most affected by the disease in the first place that have bad reactions to the vaccines. Syn and others are exactly right when they say the trade off is well worth it. Instead of 40 out of 100 coming down with the nasty or dying there are now only 1 out of 100. I just made those numbers up for the sake of discussion but I think you can get my point.

  6. #6

    Food For Thought re: Vaccinations

    Greetings,

    I just want to take a moment to share that in NYC there have been pocketed outbreaks of the measles. The unusual thing about it is that it is occurring in poor neighborhoods, amongst people who are more likely to vaccinate their children.


    mickey

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    Unfortunately, people like Marathon prove this http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...rent-true.html

    And if this study is true, its rather depressing, although not exactly shocking. Frankly, people like him simply can't be convinced. Sam Harris put it pretty well when he asked how do you convince someone who has decided they do not value evidence? At this point, I think the best way forward is to attack these people so ferociously that they never show themselves to society again. Its no longer about this generation. Its about ensuring such damaging ideas do not spread to the next. At least not until they can be "vaccinated" with developed critical thinking and an understanding of the evidence. Cruel for sure, but you don't win a war without getting bloody.

    Ideas are a lot like a communicable disease really. People like Marathon are similar to the AIDS carrier that knowingly has unprotected sex with people out of spite.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    I just want to take a moment to share that in NYC there have been pocketed outbreaks of the measles. The unusual thing about it is that it is occurring in poor neighborhoods, amongst people who are more likely to vaccinate their children.


    mickey
    Outbreaks have been occurring all over. We've had a number of both measles and mumps here as well. Further, you need to produce some evidence for your claim because this says you are talking out your back end. http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...1/187.abstract

    Poor neighborhoods are some of the least likely to have proper health care, including access to vaccinations. To most, this is pretty common sense. So you now have some work to do. Further, poor neighborhoods also have the worst sanitation. And can have high populations of immigrants, esp those from countries which have even worse health care, vaccination regimes, and sanitation. I don't think I need to connect the dots for you here.

  9. #9
    You know... I am trying to be respectful... But Fuuuuuuuck. This is frustrating shit. Some people are so backasswards that I don't even know where to start. I'm so glad I chose a STEM field that isn't constantly bombarded by supreme weapons grade stupidity. Sure, most people have no idea as to how the tech they DEPEND on actually works, but at least they will acknowledge that it does work. I totally understand why SoCo is frustrated about this stuff. Some of you people are one solar flare away from starving to death.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    You know... I am trying to be respectful... But Fuuuuuuuck. This is frustrating shit. Some people are so backasswards that I don't even know where to start. I'm so glad I chose a STEM field that isn't constantly bombarded by supreme weapons grade stupidity. Sure, most people have no idea as to how the tech they DEPEND on actually works, but at least they will acknowledge that it does work. I totally understand why SoCo is frustrated about this stuff. Some of you people are one solar flare away from starving to death.
    I'm with you on the trying to be respectful but I believe I'm being won over to the side of being hardcore rude against the stupid out there. As has been pointed out, ignorance is excusable, but spreading stupid is unforgivable. I can't even grasp the concept of not understand evolution, vaccines, obvious measurable climate change...etc. The cool thing about science is...well, one of the nifty little quotes in my signature says it all. I won't begrudge a persons spiritualism or whatever religion they are into, but scientific fact does not require a persons faith.

    Oh, and I don't think you were referring to me, but this tech savvy gardner's family is definitely not going to starve.

  11. #11
    What's cool about science is once you understand the process, how ideas are vetted. How every new idea goes 200 rounds with legions of intelligent people looking to take them down. Once you understand the process, you know where to look and what to look for in sifting through info. You know when you can say "this is an absolute fact".

    I can handle people not understanding things, we're all in the dark about so much. I can forgive people for not having the opportunity to educate themselves. What I can't forgive is the willful ignorance and disgusting confirmation bias I see.

    No, I wasn't talking about you. But then you are not like most. You have land and time. If it came down to it, I would have to "liberate" supplies to get started and hold me over till their bore fruit.

    You need sentry drones.

  12. #12
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    Conformation bias seems to be at epidemic proportions these days. Maybe somebody will come up with a vaccine for that. Oh wait, that's what the scientific method is for?

    Yep, sentry drones would be cool as ice! This may sound paranoid, but trust me it isn't because I'm just not that person. I have over a dozen cameras networked around our land that I can monitor from any of our iPhones or link through the apple tv for home viewing or on one of the laptops. We are at the end of cell phone range so I've added a couple of micro cells to boost reception, and linked a few routers so we can get wifi across the property. So, sentry drones are a logical next step.

  13. #13
    Greetings,

    In NYC we are very serious about vaccinations. It is a requirement for admission to school.

    http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...65_2013_14.pdf


    I mention this because I was wondering if the virus could be mutating, making the vaccine ineffective.


    SoCO KungFu, if you think I was making a statement about what is happening in NYC and using it as an example of what is going on all over in the USA, then maybe, you should stop reading with your ass. Stats and studies never tell everything.

    mickey

  14. #14
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    The reason some people have the luxury ( and it is a luxury) to NOT vaccinate their kids and things go ok is because the majority DO vaccinate their kids.
    My parents grew up in Portugal during a time when not all kids were vaccinated and they still remember some pretty bad outbreaks.

    Food for thought:
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/53...ment-influence

    The Council of Foreign Relations Global Health Program started tracking news reports about vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks late in 2008. It has now produced an interactive map that shows that data, tracking the number of recorded cases of diseases such as measles, mumps, and whooping cough across the world between 2008 and 2014. The results show a surprising number of vaccine-preventable diseases in developed countries with access to vaccinations.

    The majority of vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks during this time took place in less economically developed regions of the world. Many countries in west Africa were struck by repeat measles and cholera epidemics, while Zimbabwe suffered from more than 3,000 cases of typhoid. Measles was by far the most prevalent of the vaccine-preventable diseases during this four-year period: more than 20,000 cases of measles were reported in India, Pakistan, Indonesia, and the Philippines from 2008 to the present day. The LA Times' Michael Hiltzik puts the number of measles cases in the "underdeveloped world" down to the unavailability of the MMR — measles, mumps, and rubella — vaccine.

    THE MAP ALSO SHOWS A RISE IN PREVENTABLE DISEASES IN THE US, EUROPE, AND AUSTRALASIA

    But the Council of Foreign Relations' map also shows a rise in preventable diseases in the world's economic powerhouses, where the standard of living is higher, and the access to vaccines near-ubiquitous. During the period represented by the map's data, the US was home to thousands of cases of pertussis. Pertussis, also called whooping cough, went largely unreported in the underdeveloped world: 58 cases were noted in Sudan in 2013, while north Afghanistan suffered 350 cases in a cluster outbreak in 2012.

    In contrast, the state of Wisconsin alone saw more than 7,000 cases of the disease between 2011 and 2013. In California, the number was over 10,000. At least 10 babies died in the state from the disease in 2010. In 2009, there were no news reports of vaccine-preventable diseases in the state of Washington. In 2012, the state suffered five distinct outbreaks of whooping cough, totaling 7,000 cases of a disease that was once close to eradication. Similar outbreaks have occurred in Australia and the UK — both countries with advanced vaccination programs. This discrepancy could be due to the map's data source: the Council of Foreign Relations relied on news reports to collate its information, and reliable reporting from the developing world is usually trickier to find than news from inside the US or UK. But the outbreaks also appear to have intrinsic links to the anti-vaccination movements present in these economically advanced countries.

    THE CLAIMS OF ANTI-VACCINE CAMPAIGNERS CAUSED A DECLINE IN VACCINATION RATES

    In the UK, the MMR vaccine is available through the National Health Service. But the MMR vaccine was also the focus of an infamous study by Andrew Wakefield, who suggested that the vaccine had a link to the development of autism. Although the study was discredited, and Wakefield — who was reportedly planning to personally profit from a projected decline in MMR vaccinations — was struck off the British Medical Register, his baseless hypothesis pervaded public consciousness, and the country saw a decline in vaccination rates. More recently, a similar anti-vaccine standpoint has been taken by celebrities such as Jenny McCarthy in the United States. McCarthy's claim, that vaccines contain "toxins," is less specific than Wakefield's false findings, but also contributed to the misinformation about immunization, leading to a rise in preventable diseases in the US and other countries, such as Australia.

    The Council of Foreign Relations' map may be an imperfect study of preventable diseases worldwide, but it is packed with evidence — both empirical and anecdotal — that illnesses humanity worked out how to halt fifty years ago are again a threat in the west.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    In NYC we are very serious about vaccinations. It is a requirement for admission to school.

    http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...65_2013_14.pdf


    I mention this because I was wondering if the virus could be mutating, making the vaccine ineffective.


    SoCO KungFu, if you think I was making a statement about what is happening in NYC and using it as an example of what is going on all over in the USA, then maybe, you should stop reading with your ass. Stats and studies never tell everything.

    mickey

    Yes, mutation is a very real issue.

    Just an FYI in regards to school policies:
    I don't know about NY but I know that here in Toronto it is mandatory to have certain vaccinations BUT kids are exempt IF they don't have them due to religious reasons.
    I am SO AGAINST that, it's not even funny !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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