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Thread: Vaccine study finds no link to autism

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    I just want to take a moment to share that in NYC there have been pocketed outbreaks of the measles. The unusual thing about it is that it is occurring in poor neighborhoods, amongst people who are more likely to vaccinate their children.


    mickey
    Actually, I believe it is occurring in pockets and areas where people are NOT vaccinating. That is what I have heard.
    There are so many people that want to blame someone for their child's disability (Thanks Jenny McCarthy you vacuous twat) that they
    refuse to believe that there are genetic defects in their own lineage and or that they live in areas where they are exposed to poisons in the air and water.

    Self diagnosing types are the bane of the issue here. People who actually think a couple of youtube videos and a confirmation bias article they read constitutes them having some kind of deeper knowledge when they in fact, don't.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #17
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    Well, GoldenBrain I have to give thanks to you for at least engaging me in intelligent conversation. You bring up good points about Global Warming/Climate Change- I appreciate your input. Certainly industry has had an impact on our environment, very unfortunate. Years ago I was involved in a grassroots organization here in MA. I got pretty involved for a little while. Issues I worked on were to regulate/tighten up industry standards so that chemicals wouldn't have such a chance to leak into our water-ways, such as mercury. I campaigned for renewable energy (wind turbines- "the cape wind project."), and also to stop clear-cut logging in some of our forests. This was probably 2004'ish.

    As far as vaccinations go, I never said if I was for or against them. True, I myself have never been vaccinated. A lot of that has to do with how I was raised as a child. But that doesn't mean I have an opinion on them, one way or another.

    It is unfortunate that some have resorted to childish name-calling. It seems to me like I am not the one who does not look at the evidence. In fact, I look at evidence and question it, such as apparently man-made underwater (sunken) structures off the coast of Japan. I will point my finger and say "wow, look at that, let's learn more", while people like SoCo Kung Fu will say "shut up, you are stupid." In fact, it is standard practice for professionals in certain fields (archeologists, doctors) to turn a blind eye to evidence. This could be for both academic or political reasons.

    Further, it is true that places in this world are below poverty level. The way I see it, the modern, western pharmaceutical industry in general is like a Band-Aid. I can guarantee that these places have been made poor by deliberate design (wars, opium wars, colonialism, conquest, genocide), which is the real root of the problem. I am not naïve though, and realize that such destruction of the human state will continue. If anything, people are de-evolving INTO monkeys. Go ahead, call me more names instead of engaging me in intelligent conversation, you will only prove my point.

  3. #18
    Never mistake not jumping on a bandwagon as a denial. There is a process, and until that runs it's course, no competent physician(or any other professional worth their salt) is going read too much into evidence presented.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Yes, mutation is a very real issue.

    Just an FYI in regards to school policies:
    I don't know about NY but I know that here in Toronto it is mandatory to have certain vaccinations BUT kids are exempt IF they don't have them due to religious reasons.
    I am SO AGAINST that, it's not even funny !
    TX also mandates vaccinations for school kids but you can opt out by signing a few forms. We homeschool our child and in TX a homeschool environment is considered a private school. Meaning we mandate what we want to mandate. We also get to certify the diploma. With that said, as I mentioned we do vaccinate and the state keeps all those records. My wife and I were vaccinated up to our eyeballs with even less efficient vaccines as children. We are both thankful for that and for great people like Louis Pasteur. We just want the same protections for our child.

  5. #20
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    No problem Matt! You know, I don't really mind engaging in all sorts of conversation on up to complete fantasy, but many here just won't do it. I'm a scientific thinker but not a scientist so I'm allowed to be this way. Doctors, scientists...etc. just don't have that luxury and at this point I'm happy for that. If they entertained the kind of thoughts we might engage in then science and medicine would be a joke. The problem today is WebMD doctors, bloggers spouting BS, people believing that and spreading it around to those who just don't have the faculties to understand the difference.

    This state is a fine example. Bill Nye was boooo'd off the stage one time when speaking in a very bible belty area near Waco, TX. He was trying to explain that the moon reflects sunlight and is not a source of light as some bibles have put it. At least that's how I think the lecture went. That shouldn't challenge anybodies religion but rather further explain the process. It's simple fact that we know this about the moon. We have space craft for gods/goddess's sake.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    In NYC we are very serious about vaccinations. It is a requirement for admission to school.

    http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...65_2013_14.pdf


    I mention this because I was wondering if the virus could be mutating, making the vaccine ineffective.


    SoCO KungFu, if you think I was making a statement about what is happening in NYC and using it as an example of what is going on all over in the USA, then maybe, you should stop reading with your ass. Stats and studies never tell everything.

    mickey
    No idiot, I was actually stating that NYC isn't unique in its troubles. And calling you out on a BS claim, which I actually did rather politely. But now that you've decided to double down on stupid, put up or shut up. You're talking bull****. Either show some evidence, against the overwhelming data on demographics and health care/vaccination trends which go directly against your claim, or admit you don't know wtf you are talking about. Its very simple.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    I mention this because I was wondering if the virus could be mutating, making the vaccine ineffective.
    Mutations occur but its not so cut and dry, poof now its protected. Mutations take time to gradually flow through a population (in this case a population of the disease). That mutation also needs to be selected for. In this, by vaccinating, the vulnerable bacteria or virus are eliminated (or rather prevented from propagating), leaving those microbes with resistance. However, in populations where no vaccinations are occurring, this selection will not be happening and its very statistically unlikely that a mutant will pervade through this population (this is the case we see; and is explained by basic evolutionary game theory). Further, holding a shield to your left exposes your right. This is no different. A mutation may develop a resistance, but a microbe has a finite chemical structure to work with. That mutation can open a target for a medication/vaccine elsewhere. This is exactly what the armies of immunologists work to exploit every year.
    Last edited by SoCo KungFu; 05-27-2014 at 02:05 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarathonTmatt View Post
    It is unfortunate that some have resorted to childish name-calling. It seems to me like I am not the one who does not look at the evidence. In fact, I look at evidence and question it, such as apparently man-made underwater (sunken) structures off the coast of Japan. I will point my finger and say "wow, look at that, let's learn more", while people like SoCo Kung Fu will say "shut up, you are stupid." In fact, it is standard practice for professionals in certain fields (archeologists, doctors) to turn a blind eye to evidence. This could be for both academic or political reasons.
    Actually, I'm saying, shut up and read, because you are being stupid. Subtle, but important difference. You are in here whining and trying to play victim. However, what instigates this treatment is the fact that in at least 4 threads now, you've entered with a list of questions and then in not 3 or 4 sentences following (if that), you go into diatribes against the very people and the very process which can give you those answers. You've shown time and again that despite this crying exampled above, you are in no way here for anything remotely resembling intelligent conversation. You're here for people to coddle your overactive imagination and sympathize with your agenda. You're here to rant about the "establishment" when you don't even have a clue on what the establishment actually is. This is why you receive my vitriol. You are absolutely insulting and you are so caught up in your own little fantasy, you don't even understand why. What you do here, weekly, would be the equal of walking into Yee Chi Wai's kwoon and yelling you want to learn Hung Gar, but you refuse to learn from Yee because he's been "indoctrinated" by the Chinese kung fu institutions. How stupid do you think that is? This is exactly what you look like right now. And then you ***** when people call you out? Grow the fk up. You aren't a victim. And for fuks sake, learn what evidence actually entails. You wouldn't know evidence if it gwa choy'ed you in the face.

  9. #24
    Greetings,

    SoCo KungFu,

    You are the true reflection of the words you call people. If you can't stand what I have to say, put me on ignore. I triple dare you. Good Bye.


    mickey

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    Actually, I'm saying, shut up and read, because you are being stupid. Subtle, but important difference. You are in here whining and trying to play victim. However, what instigates this treatment is the fact that in at least 4 threads now, you've entered with a list of questions and then in not 3 or 4 sentences following (if that), you go into diatribes against the very people and the very process which can give you those answers. You've shown time and again that despite this crying exampled above, you are in no way here for anything remotely resembling intelligent conversation. You're here for people to coddle your overactive imagination and sympathize with your agenda. You're here to rant about the "establishment" when you don't even have a clue on what the establishment actually is. This is why you receive my vitriol. You are absolutely insulting and you are so caught up in your own little fantasy, you don't even understand why. What you do here, weekly, would be the equal of walking into Yee Chi Wai's kwoon and yelling you want to learn Hung Gar, but you refuse to learn from Yee because he's been "indoctrinated" by the Chinese kung fu institutions. How stupid do you think that is? This is exactly what you look like right now. And then you ***** when people call you out? Grow the fk up. You aren't a victim. And for fuks sake, learn what evidence actually entails. You wouldn't know evidence if it gwa choy'ed you in the face.
    Fair enough. I respect your opinion, if that is how I am broadcasting myself to you. I also want to say, I find nothing wrong with the scientific process (photo-synthesis, etc.) What I do have a problem with are institutions that run a monopoly. What you must learn, what gets covered up and swept under the rug, what goes un-investigated. For instance, where is the team of professional experts studying those Japanese ruins, or has it just gone un-investigated.

    Also, I have no agenda. Just asking questions. Heck, not even asking questions, really. Simply pointing out things I have read or seen that grab my attention. I agree, I am not a victim. I have made sure of that up to this point. I would encourage anyone who does feel like a victim to change their situation.

    You have brought up some good points, okay, sure. I do not know how to think like a scientist, but I am a critical thinker. Looking at a globe map with one of the pole ends of the earth thinking it makes sense to do so is not a fantasy, and neither is questioning possibly-verifiable ruins. That's all.

  11. #26
    I also want to say, I find nothing wrong with the scientific process (photo-synthesis, etc.)
    What?

    What exactly do you think is meant by the term "scientific method"?

    Anyways, we all have an agenda and it's always selfish. If I argue with somebody and try to sway them to my way of thinking it's not necessarily out of a genuine caring for their well being, I'm just trying to shape the world around me to what I want.

    Do you really believe evolution has been proven false? I'm curious as to what you base that opinion on? Any references? You say you are a critical thinker yet if you don't understand the scientific method yet claim it has shown something to be false then that means you have just accepted the words of another without applying any critique. Know what I'm sayin? Bit of a contradiction there.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    You're here for people to coddle your overactive imagination... You're here to rant about the "establishment" when you don't even have a clue on what the establishment actually is. This is why you receive my vitriol. You are absolutely insulting and you are so caught up in your own little fantasy, you don't even understand why.
    Sir,
    May I explain a few things. Where I live, in New England, out of hundreds of thousands of people who live in my area (and outside my area, numbering millions), I am one of only a few of people who is aware of the significance of the former, once ceremonial (indigenous) landscape. The general area I live in is rich with significant stone-work, in pockets of undeveloped land . Everything else besides the stone decays. Just the other year, an airport was going to expand it's runways in Turner's Falls, Massachusetts but a contingency of Wampanoag and Narragansett people identified ceremonial stonework and got the expansion to stop. This place is now listed on the Registrars List Of Historic Places. For a reference to this, just Google "Turner's Falls Ceremonial Stonework" or something of that nature. Also see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceremonial_stone_landscape

    However, preservation of these places is pretty rare, developers destroy a lot every year (it is still not commonly accepted or understood these places exist). In fact, it was not commonly recognized that pre-colonial indigenous people did this kind of thing in my area (just another excuse to dismiss the significance of the culture that was here- what settler wants to think of it too hard anyway.) However, awareness for these ceremonial structures and the way the landscape was used is starting to increase.

    At a Powwow last fall, I was discussing these things with a Wampanoag lady, and she was telling me some horror stories about some old grave sites she was trying to protect. And, just the other week, while casually riding my bicycle and exploring new places, I found a very significant (above ground) stone shrine (with other incorporated stone work) worked into a hillside. Amazing how many lightning strikes were right in that area, like every 2 feet I called my friend up the next day, who is a member of a research organization, and whose father worked for the Massachusetts Archeological Survey Commission, so that the place could at least be documented. I have seen many, many examples similar to this over the years in my (general) area, it never ceases to amaze me.

    As for me, like I have stated before, I have American Indian ancestry. My grandfather was a board member of the Chicago Indian Center in his day, and he grew up in Allamakee County Iowa, where there is a national park which preserves American Indian mounds from the archaic period, Effigy Mounds National Monument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effigy_...ional_Monument These are sacred, ceremonial sites.

    Now, for the fantasy world. People who are Cosplayers live in a fantasy world. People who play video games or computer games live in a fantasy world. People who watch more than 1 hour of TV a day live in a fantasy world.
    What I am doing, is conservation, preservation, and learning about the past. I do not live in a big city, I live in a more rural area.

    Now, as far as the rest of the world- yes, I like to research to know what is out there in the rest of the world, it is interesting. And with a growing public in these places, like the TV show America Unearthed (he did a episode about a Polynesian/Native American link the same week I posted a thread here about a possible Polynesian/Native American/Asian cultural tie here on this board. I guess I never explained that rhyme and reason.) Another interesting thing is the possible underwater Japanese ruins. If those are man-made ruins (which haven't concretely been verified either way) than when it was above water puts a spike in the current human evolution theory- this is just one example of a possible out of place artifact that is at odds with our current level of understanding. I am currently not involved with being in the professional world, so I do not think like a scientist. I realize someone such as yourself has to be careful. I am more interested in an understanding, than in tid-bit facts based off of scientific theories (for instance there is a "missing link" in the evolution theory.) At the same time, I do not under any circumstances subscribe to any whack-nut Ancient Alien theories and the like.

    Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. Here is some more info on the pre-colonial New England stuff:
    http://www.nativestones.com/
    http://www.ancientlights.org/ (Dr. Jack Dempsey's website)
    http://www.stonestructures.org/
    Also google "Red Paint People"

    I do have to thank you though, SoCo, you did bring me down to Earth, I will try to be more coherent and practical in my approach. I understand what you say.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    What?

    What exactly do you think is meant by the term "scientific method"?

    Anyways, we all have an agenda and it's always selfish. If I argue with somebody and try to sway them to my way of thinking it's not necessarily out of a genuine caring for their well being, I'm just trying to shape the world around me to what I want.

    Do you really believe evolution has been proven false? I'm curious as to what you base that opinion on? Any references? You say you are a critical thinker yet if you don't understand the scientific method yet claim it has shown something to be false then that means you have just accepted the words of another without applying any critique. Know what I'm sayin? Bit of a contradiction there.
    Well for the scientific method, I think it means observance of the scientific process, like a controlled experiment in photo-synthesis. "Apply the scientific method to find out if A works or if B works, etc." Well anyway, you are obviously more well-versed in scientific terminology than I am, I never studied science to a high level or made a career out of it.

    Has evolution been proven false? I think there is a missing link in the equation, that is my understanding, that is what I had always read and heard about. If that is the case, then the way I see the evolution theory is like a glass house. It is at least a convenient model for our current level of human understanding, from a professional stand-point. I think a better question to ask (and you might want to seriously investigate this) is if the evolution theory has ever been proven beyond a doubt 100% true.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarathonTmatt View Post
    Well for the scientific method, I think it means observance of the scientific process, like a controlled experiment in photo-synthesis. "Apply the scientific method to find out if A works or if B works, etc." Well anyway, you are obviously more well-versed in scientific terminology than I am, I never studied science to a high level or made a career out of it.

    Has evolution been proven false? I think there is a missing link in the equation, that is my understanding, that is what I had always read and heard about. If that is the case, then the way I see the evolution theory is like a glass house. It is at least a convenient model for our current level of human understanding, from a professional stand-point. I think a better question to ask (and you might want to seriously investigate this) is if the evolution theory has ever been proven beyond a doubt 100% true.
    Micro evolution has been proven, yes.
    Macro-evolution has been proven "by default" ( macro is simply the "final" result of micro).
    Even creationists agree with micro evolution.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  15. #30
    Greetings,

    Here is an article on what is happening in NYC. In its own backhanded way, it shares that the measles is popping up amongst some babies who have been vaccinated and completely dodges whether the same is happening amongst adults, writing that adults seldom maintain records of their past immunizations. This is outright boulder dash. The information can be accessed. The number of cases of the measles has increased 50% in NYC since the date of the article. Even though the actual numbers are low, it is cause for serious concern.

    http://shotofprevention.com/2014/03/...he-vaccinated/



    mickey

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