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Thread: McDojo Stories

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    also its kind of a non-productive question as most of the individuals commenting here aren't professional martial arts teachers.

    They don't run schools or even teach at all.

    Hey I think I'm filling in for David Ross during his vacation.
    How so. I think most that have answered do teach either professionally or as their passion or at least their concern.

    When you are training fighters and sending them to venues you can make claims of fitting into Ross's shoes.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #242
    uh I was going to comment more but just saw video clips of DJ doing stick and knives, well I won't waste my time.

    As for taking david's place in the aspect of naysayer, atagonist. Actually he's a good coach and does produce some good fighters but there's the other side of him eh.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    uh I was going to comment more but just saw video clips of DJ doing stick and knives, well I won't waste my time.

    As for taking david's place in the aspect of naysayer, atagonist. Actually he's a good coach and does produce some good fighters but there's the other side of him eh.
    Yeah yeah, why not show us yours eric? You got anything?
    Or you looking to just get angry at someone today?
    You and Ross have ZERO in common. For one thing, Dave can spell antagonist.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  4. #244
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    This is probably the most direct list of what makes a McDojo and McDojo:

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    - non descript style or lineage
    - hodge podge of styles
    - fixation on ranking
    - fixation on uniform
    - price list for belt tests
    - children with black belts
    - unfit and out of shape instructors
    - strong focus on fees, dues and promoted items
    I'd like to add the following though:
    - Patches, glorious patches!
    - Whatever style seems to be popular at the time influencing what is being taught at the school i.e. "We have Jiu Jitsu techniques too" OR "We have anti-Jiu Jitsu techniques."
    - If you are talking to the instructor and you say "I'm interested in" and then name a style that isn't taught at the school and their response is "We have the same techniques" or "It has been integrated in our system"
    - Seminars and special classes for stuff you should be learning in a regular class, such as form application
    - "Cramming" for belt test because it's been so long since your last promotion but you don't have all the material yet for your next one that a few weeks away
    - Junior Instructors and Assistants leave at a high rate

  5. #245
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    I think that many people define it in their own way. I have noticed a change in the meaning of the word through the past few years as well.

    Think of what McDonalds is. It's a fast food restaurant that sells burgers very quick for very cheap. They aren't "fake burgers", they just aren't the best burger you can buy. You know exactly what you are going to get in any McD's you go to.

    Think of when the phrase was first used back in the 70's (yes, it has been around that long). It was when schools started to franchise themselves and make it more customer friendly. You could go into any of their schools and you would get the same product/training and know what to expect.

    Unfortunately, in the process to make it more "customer" friendly. It meant REALLY lowering the amount of contact. So now anyone can walk into a school and get a blackbelt.

    Later, we saw the "up marketing" aspect and having "blackbelt clubs" that you pay $ XXXXX and are guaranteed a blackbelt in X amount of years. They also added tons of different colored belt ranks to increase the testing fees and decrease the time it takes between belts, so you can literally be testing every month for the next stripe/color.

    It is this last definition that I see people usually referring to when they mean McDojo.

    Now, with the advent and popularity of MMA, I see the term McDojo being used to mean ANY school that doesn't teach fighting as it's main focus. So no matter how traditional an aikido school is, it is a McDojo because they teach it for harmony/cooperation and not for pure fighting.

    So it has again changed meanings.
    "God gave you a brain, and it annoys Him greatly when you choose not to use it."

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin73 View Post
    I think that many people define it in their own way. I have noticed a change in the meaning of the word through the past few years as well.

    Think of what McDonalds is. It's a fast food restaurant that sells burgers very quick for very cheap. They aren't "fake burgers", they just aren't the best burger you can buy. You know exactly what you are going to get in any McD's you go to.

    Think of when the phrase was first used back in the 70's (yes, it has been around that long). It was when schools started to franchise themselves and make it more customer friendly. You could go into any of their schools and you would get the same product/training and know what to expect.

    Unfortunately, in the process to make it more "customer" friendly. It meant REALLY lowering the amount of contact. So now anyone can walk into a school and get a blackbelt.

    Later, we saw the "up marketing" aspect and having "blackbelt clubs" that you pay $ XXXXX and are guaranteed a blackbelt in X amount of years. They also added tons of different colored belt ranks to increase the testing fees and decrease the time it takes between belts, so you can literally be testing every month for the next stripe/color.

    It is this last definition that I see people usually referring to when they mean McDojo.

    Now, with the advent and popularity of MMA, I see the term McDojo being used to mean ANY school that doesn't teach fighting as it's main focus. So no matter how traditional an aikido school is, it is a McDojo because they teach it for harmony/cooperation and not for pure fighting.

    So it has again changed meanings.
    Lowering the bar in a martial arts school is bad for the skills and bad for the school.

    Even the best army can only march as fast as it's slowest member. Too much fluff and making room for more fluff winds up just a big ol' pile of fluff. Practically useless.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  7. #247
    Customers get what they pay for. If they don't like it then can leave. Most individuals who do MA is the hobbiest and their goal is a Black Belt.

    One of my teachers used to resent this but over the years he has changed his mind.

    He's now gets mature students who experienced the "Strip Mall School" and wanted more. he benefits because he now gets students who have some sort of basics (not necessarily good) but something to work with.

    But the real reason for the negative views on these schools is just plain jealousy. Teachers resent the fact that their competitors schools are full and they are just teaching a small group in the park after working a full 9-5 job. And in the end the % of quality students produced in a Professional School and a Hobbiest's club is actually almost the same.

    One term that needs to be clarified is the term "professional" and "Hobbiest" when it comes to Martial Arts Instructors.

    For me a professional lives and breaths what they are doing and make a living at it. Its not about selling out but about being innovative and modernization. Just like those teachers in our public schools have to constantly upgrade their teaching material and strategies, and so should Martial Arts teachers.

    Also in terms of kids I know very few parents that would opt to have their child train in a park with an unregistered teacher without a business license who has no Insurance in place.

  8. #248

  9. #249
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    LMFAO!

    ...
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #250
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    What defines a "McDojo" or "McKwoon" (whatever)?

    I think it's the happy meals that define McDojos & McKwoons. You get a prepackaged meal for your kids, complete with a 'free' toy, in a colorful box.

    It's either that or the clown mascots.

    Or maybe it's the drive-up windows?
    Gene Ching
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  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    Also in terms of kids I know very few parents that would opt to have their child train in a park with an unregistered teacher without a business license who has no Insurance in place.
    True.

    Though having both my kids train at the park for several years with my own teacher was probably the best training experience they could have had.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    And in the end the % of quality students produced in a Professional School and a Hobbiest's club is actually almost the same.
    Might depend on the quality level.

    You also can say, "And in the end the # of quality students produced in a Professional School and a Hobbiest's club is actually almost the same."

    You can teach 200 students and only 2 are really kick ass good. Or you can teach 6-10, and only 2 are really kick ass good.

    My Sigung taught something like 6000 students. He was known as the Mantis King. He only ever authorised 25 of those students to teach. That's less than half a percent.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post
    Customers get what they pay for. If they don't like it then can leave.
    My teacher charged me $10 a month.

    He met my kids a few months after each was born. When they were older, he invited them, and later my wife, to learn from him.

    Even when he was teaching my whole family, I was paying only $100 a month, and that already was more than he asked for.

    My Sihing and I have not been charging our students.

    The other week, he asked one of the students, "Why do you deserve to learn from us? If you don't know, you should leave."

  14. #254
    -n-

    Who is your teacher?

    or Who are you?

    just because someone teaches for free has the same meaning as someone who charges $1000 a month.

    Is their skill good and is the quality of their students good?

    So in actuality its more about is the teacher any good. I know alot of teachers who have very low level of skill with lots of students as well as the other way around very skilled teachers with very few students.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post

    just because someone teaches for free has the same meaning as someone who charges $1000 a month.
    I know a lot of people that charge a lot of money and suck. Their students suck too.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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