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Thread: McDojo Stories

  1. #226
    Some more...

    - They train forms only for beauty and showing.
    - They live on the mysticism and some assure that kung fu is only for healt and as an art, which is probably true for them due to they don't teach to fight.
    - Some have a gymnastic part, and teach a series of very impressive and useless soil gymnastic skills for a punch.
    - When you see their weapons forms you think in a baton twirler.
    - They have periodical exams for upgrade level, and they prepare you for the exam.
    - Their master knows 300+ forms(just a saying for too many).

    Making this lists are fun, but we realize that some very respectable training centers have some of them, but a McDojo have the most of them.

  2. #227
    Mc

    like a fast food chain, franchised

    learn something fast

    limited by menu

    easy to prepare

    ready to eat or use

    Mostly baby sitting

    on and on.

  3. #228
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    It means you get fries with your forms. More bang for your buck. https://www.google.com/search?q=Fren...w=1440&bih=807
    Last edited by PalmStriker; 09-01-2013 at 10:42 AM.

  4. #229
    Greetings,

    A McDojo or McKwoon is a place where the "master" can walk into the middle of his school demonstration, drop is pants, squat and take a mean, unglorified, noisy, sh!t and the students and audience will tear up, stand, howl, and clap while swearing that what they saw was absolutely amazing and that they were so blessed and so honored to be a part of it.

    mickey

  5. #230
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    McDojo or McKwoon is a place where the "master" can walk into the middle of his school demonstration, drop is pants, squat and take a mean, unglorified, noisy, sh!t and the students and audience will tear up, stand, howl, and clap while swearing that what they saw was absolutely amazing and that they were so blessed and so honored to be a part of it.
    pretty much
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  6. #231
    Mc Dojo/Kwoon = "Mc/Mac (son of/relative) Dojo/kwoon (training hall)

    well thats the literal translation.

    Generally this has been taken over to denote a negative connotation about a professional martial arts school.

    Sure there are many facets I agree with but then again alot of the so called "What makes a Traditional/Classical or Practical/Combat/Realistic Dojo/Kwoon" I don't see either.

    I always read on these forums how this teacher is this and that teacher is that but the individual writing it hasn't even achieved what they claim.

    If you want a good teacher look at the students. Do they have the attributes your looking for. Too often individuals focus too much attention on the teacher/instructor.

    Some of my best boxing coaches had mediocre skills and competiton wins. But they produced some amazing talent.

    So Look at the students. You also have to remember that just because a teacher is skilled doesn't mean the students will be. The could just be stupid, lazy or all the above but most the individual is a terrible teacher.

    Most of all you have those individuals who want to be taught the world but don't have the discipline or sacrifice to train to acquire the skill plus they tend to be realllly cheap when it comes to compen$ation value for what they want.

    So all those that commented what have you produced?
    Last edited by ngokfei; 09-01-2013 at 11:04 PM.

  7. #232
    Some very interesting views being exprerssed here and not those I would have expected.

    For the most part I'm reading that most of you view McDojo's as being community based instructional schools of a lower standard and or commercial enterprises???

    What I was expecting to see was people saying fake schools, fraudulent schools selling ranks or promoting others whilst their own credibility is in question which is something I've not witnessed in this discussion.

    That's interesting in itself.

    A quick Google leads me to:

    1/. Clubs that sell lessons/ranks.

    2/. Schools whose only existence is to make profit off teaching mediocre skills.

    3/. Run by people with "false" ranks!


    It's number 3 that interests me on a historical perspective. I'm going to throw something our there for hopefully interesting discussion ......

    If we could go far enough back in Martial Arts history within all styles we would come to someone who:

    1/. Made it all up.

    2/. Having made it all up taught it to others.

    3/. Having made it all up and taught it to others then "awarded" a rank to those people or claimed a "rank / position of authority" for themselves.

    Looking at it from such a perspective and it is a perspective that is historically and factually true .... then all arts came from such a McDojo etc???

    This then leads us to the supposition that he founders of the arts we may follow were to a greater or lesser extent a "Fraud" (in the modern definition) or operated a form of a "McDojo".

    Your thoughts?

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  8. #233
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    Quote- This then leads us to the supposition that he founders of the arts we may follow were to a greater or lesser extent a "Fraud" (in the modern definition) or operated a form of a "McDojo".

    Fraud, fake, call it what you will, but these words imply deception, lies, shoddy goods and dishonesty.
    Please justify you supposition that the founders of martial arts were such.

  9. #234
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    There is a difference between "made up" and innovations made through experience
    Hung Sing Martial Arts Association
    Self Protection, Self Confidence, Physical Fitness
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  10. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    If we could go far enough back in Martial Arts history within all styles we would come to someone who:

    1/. Made it all up.

    2/. Having made it all up taught it to others.

    3/. Having made it all up and taught it to others then "awarded" a rank to those people or claimed a "rank / position of authority" for themselves.

    Looking at it from such a perspective and it is a perspective that is historically and factually true .... then all arts came from such a McDojo etc???

    This then leads us to the supposition that he founders of the arts we may follow were to a greater or lesser extent a "Fraud" (in the modern definition) or operated a form of a "McDojo".

    Your thoughts?
    The problem isn't that someone "made it up" we know it all began somewhere. But some arts were built on the experience of the originator, evolved and adapted over the years and grew through the insights of later practitioners.

    The teacher at the "McDojo" you speak of claims to have: originated the style himself, (without the benefit of war/real life experience,)....

    or, learned from many masters and used his superior background to form his curriculum, (when in fact his training with said master(s) was very limited, or even non existent,)....

    or, based his "system" on techniques/concepts that he made up, or stole, without ever going through the war/real life/sport process to qualify them....

    The fraud part isn't making up rank, (that is just silly and egotistical.) The fraud part is pretending the rank has some sort of greater value than whatever that school places on it, as if it represents some ancient lineage, storied master or famed warrior.

    The fraud part isn't creating a system, it's selling yourself as the pinnacle of thousands of years of combined knowledge, when you've done nothing more than steal, rearrange and misrepresent ideas you do not even properly understand, then portray yourself as an authority of these ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  11. #236
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    - non descript style or lineage
    - hodge podge of styles
    - fixation on ranking
    - fixation on uniform
    - price list for belt tests
    - children with black belts
    - unfit and out of shape instructors
    - strong focus on fees, dues and promoted items
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  12. #237
    - non descript style or lineage
    - hodge podge of styles
    - fixation on ranking
    - fixation on uniform
    - price list for belt tests
    - children with black belts
    - unfit and out of shape instructors
    - strong focus on fees, dues and promoted items


    LOL - sounds like every college and university out there.

    but you didn't mention anything about skill of the student. Is that individuals ranking/certification/diploma worth anything in the real world.

    and just because a style is old doesn't make their teachings applicable today or even if they principles/theories are sound it doesn't guarantee the quality or skill of an individual training this particular style.

    People are overly focused on "style" and not the "Individual teacher". Research shows that schools (when they were public) never advertised a paticular "style" you trained because of the "individual teaching" their achievements etc. is what brought them to our attention.

    Now its just alot of talk - especially with so many venues for an individual to show their skills.

  13. #238
    also its kind of a non-productive question as most of the individuals commenting here aren't professional martial arts teachers.

    They don't run schools or even teach at all.

    Hey I think I'm filling in for David Ross during his vacation.

  14. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by mantis7 View Post
    A Mc dojo or Mc kwoon is a complete hobby school where the quality of the school is subpar. They usually have a high turn out rate of black belt within a short amount of time. For example, producing a black belt within a 2-3 year time frame. The students show relatively low level skill due to the water down curriculum.

    They concentrate on up sales to students. For example, join our black belt program and you get one extra class a week and get ranked up quicker. They use gimmicks to get students to enroll.

    They focus on making money, which isn't bad, but do so at the expense of quality.

    They usually teach forms with little to no actual combat training.

    They profess their style to be to deadly for competition.

    I am missing a few things but for the life of me I can't remember them. You should know when you see it!
    I would argue that most martial artists are hobbyists. Most aren't competing in competitions or engaging in life and death street fights so by definition they are hobbyists. They are there to have fun, do something new, make friends, and lose weight. And there's nothing wrong with that. The way you make it sound is that the "real" schools are filled with tough guys who fight all the time and aren't just doing forms and drills like every other school.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngokfei View Post

    LOL - sounds like every college and university out there.
    How so? College and University has definite paths and curriculum with progression in the study built in.
    but you didn't mention anything about skill of the student. Is that individuals ranking/certification/diploma worth anything in the real world.
    Skill of the student... How is that determined without crossing hands? Either friendly or otherwise?
    and just because a style is old doesn't make their teachings applicable today or even if they principles/theories are sound it doesn't guarantee the quality or skill of an individual training this particular style.
    There is never a guarantee. I am referring to what are markers of a school that I would consider a mckwoon. Or fast food type martial arts school.
    People are overly focused on "style" and not the "Individual teacher". Research shows that schools (when they were public) never advertised a paticular "style" you trained because of the "individual teaching" their achievements etc. is what brought them to our attention.
    Teachers hail from schools. Which great teachers f martial arts hail from the void? I can't think of any and any worth their weight are from systems that are established.
    Now its just alot of talk - especially with so many venues for an individual to show their skills.
    So, How do you identify a dodgy or sketchy martial arts club? I stated my criteria, what's yours?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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