McDojo Stories

[KC Elbows]

How many of you guys have been a student at a McDojo or are in one now? Care to share some of your stories? Why do you feel your present school iis not a mcdojo?

I was in chung moo for quite a while. I'll spare you all the chung moo stories, they're all over this forum anyway. However, if you're bored, you can find my favorite one, one I like to call "Assistant Instructor Poopypants."

Reasons my school is not a mcdojo: My teacher does not make money off of it, we don't have to worship him, and we fight too often to hide any weakness in our kung fu.

[Budokan]

After we moved here and I had decided I wanted go get back into MA, I made a real effort to check out every dojo (and kwoon) around. This was above and beyond the best one. They made the lower ranks train separately from higher ranks; fees were comparable with other dojos but also included use of weight machines, jacuzzi, pool, sauna, etc. I sat in on a couple of classes and at first and was very impressed with the professionalism of the instructors and the high standard they demanded from the students.

I've been very lucky. I hear a lot of horror stories about bad places to train and have never been in any. I don't think staying in a bad dojo is better than not training on your own, by the way. Who needs the aggravation?

K. Mark Hoover

[KC Elbows]

Agreed. I learned more real martial arts, though my mechanics weren't right, in the time between leaving chung moo and starting kung fu, than I did in the years at chung moo.

[Rolling Elbow]

I used to train in some questionable jujutsu...techniques were rather static but at least the training was decent. Not a McDojo per say.

My girl friend just started TKD and after 3 classes she is bored stiff. With classes every hour and never more than 10 students a class, she complains and tells me they never offer her advice on how to kick or punch properly, how to use what she is taught, and more importantly, teach her through real fighters as opposed to the fat asses walking around with black belts. She kickboxed for two years and knows how to throw a good punch, kick combos, and work the clinch. She is a tough little fox..too bad she is wasting away in TKD. I warned her though..now she has to suffer through the remainder 3 months of her contract and will be lucky enough to get her "yellow belt" after practicing the same three punches and kicks for a month....sucker! lol.

I told her i'd do some pad work with her so hopefully her interest and spark for training will stick around.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[MaFuYee]

what? your boring girlfriend has a stiffy?

- neque mibi quisquam Judaeorum fabulas objiciat.

[KC Elbows]

On the flip side, once I took a few classes from a school that was not particularly good. The instructor was decent, but not good. Anyway, it was a small school, he just liked teaching, and he didn't charge his students very much. He was very kind to his students, and actually told me that I was welcome to practice at his school, but he did not feel he was good enough to be my teacher, so I was like a friend of the school.

There is a fine line between an honest, but ungifted teacher, and a mcdojo owner, and I think that what side of that line a school falls under depends upon the character of the teacher.

[phipsi229]

Budokan, they made your gf sign a contract? That should have been a dead giveaway that this school was a McDojo.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be."

[Rolling Elbow]

I knew it was a McDojo..she was convinced that it would be good because her friend trains there. (big slow guy)

Anyway, they are getting her into great shape so i'm not exactly going to knock on their door and throw down korean style'. :p

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[Ima Pseudonym]

claymoore,

why do you feel requiring a contract designates a school as a mcdojo? in my own experience you get what you pay for, but i have seen substandard schools hide behind a contract to force their students into staying, so i know where the idea comes from, but i train under a contract at my present school and after 3 consecutive year-long contracts i know without a doubt it isn't a mcdojo :) so i don't think that means havin' a contract screams "McDojo"

I love the smell of iron palm in the morning, it smells like.... victory

[KC Elbows]

Ima,
Not trying to flame, but contracts are not my favorite thing, they stick the student with all the responsibility and deny them the choice to leave the style without suffering monetary loss. If a student decides to leave a school before the contract is up, why should the school receive a penny for not having to train the student? It's free money for the school, and that's not really right.

[SaMantis]

I study Wah Lum Tam Tui. Just "celebrated" finishing my 2nd year -- with pushups. ;)

Contracts are definitely a hot topic ... on the one hand, why should a student keep paying if he quits before his year is up? On the other hand, the instructor's gotta pay bills, even if he doesn't make a profit. So I think it comes down to how you feel about the school/system, and if the contract seems fair (if you have more than one choice, like 3, 6 or 12 months, and if you don't have to mortgage your firstborn just to get in the door). Your own choice.

My school has contracts, and of course every student has his or her opinion on them. But I did a lot of comparison shopping before joining. The rates are average and I do feel like I'm getting my money's worth. So I'm okay with it.

Sam

Umm ... yeahhhhhh ... that's grrrreat ... -- Lumbergh

[KC Elbows]

Its my opinion that once an instructor pays his bills by the cash of people who don't practice under him, then he is now the proud owner of a McDojo. His profits should come from his teachings, and there are other ways to get together more cash(seminars, etc.)
Glad this is staying friendly, though. I've seen schools that signed contracts, but didn't hold people to them when they wanted to leave. That's OK, I suppose.

[Shaolindynasty]

I know some schools give discounts acording to how long a contract you sign. So if you know you are going to stick with somthing it could work out for the students benifit. On the other hand I would take a few free lessons or at least sit and watch a few classes before I sign any contract. It should be the buyers responsibility to make sure they get what they want, if they sign up without looking into anything about that school or shopping around then they shouldn't complain about the contract cause it would be their fault, and no we don't have them at my school.


www.shaolindynasty.cjb.net

[Ima Pseudonym]

no worries ;)

i hear where you are coming from, but here is my view on it. there are a few good reasons for contracts in my opinion, some good for the student and some good for the school. one good point for the student is it protects them from any rise in monthly dues. since our school is here in california we were hit very hard by the energy price hikes (we stay open 12 hours a day, light bill was enormous) and had to raise dues to cover it. those students who were on a contract were not affected.

now, from the school standpoint there is the cost of training, i.e. instructor pay, equipment and such. in my school in particular the first few months are almost exclusively private instruction, so they way i look at it the actual cost of the instruction is spread out over the year instead of the first few months being very expensive and then leveling off.

anyways, i gotta' get back to work, everyone have a good day

D

I love the smell of iron palm in the morning, it smells like.... victory

[Confucius26]

It's not a personal experience but it's too big to pass it by!

There's 9 Studios Unis d'auto-défense Kempo Karate
in english :"United Studios of self defence Kempo Karate". They are 15 in eastern Quebec province.
Just to compare there's 10 Burger King and 26 McDo in the metro area!

They are affiliated with Nick Cerio's Kempo.
The guy who started that, Clermont Poulin, is legit. He knows is stuff!

So what's wrong with them?

- The number of schools;
- 8-9 years old kids with Black Belts;
- Fees for all the belt tests (100% success rate)
- Too much competitions ($$$)
- Those who shout louder, jump higher and looks much like a gymnasts with their triple axels wins all. I've seen all that in their biggest international competition with people from as far as California (Paul Mitchell team).

If you know french or just out of curiosity : http://www.studiosunis.com.

But the biggest McKwoon in the area is own by an ancient student of my Sigung.
This guy learned the small and the large frame of Yang Tai Chi and a 1/2 of a Hung Gar starting form and decided that it was enough for him to start a school! Without is sifu's authorization of course!
This guy now pretend that is father teach him everything he knows!
His father never teach him a single technique because he think that his son is not worth of it!

$$$ is the only thing in his mind! He's the worst in town but he is the most visible. Big adds on highways, CMA symposium, etc. He like to be seen with big names of Chinese MA community!
This guy is a business man(successfull one i must say), not a humble martial artist
Enough time wasted on him!
Take a look here, http://www.sifutoy.com i think there's an english version of his site.
WARNING : nearly 100% of what he claims is false!