On why I think Hendrik is on to something.

[Paddington]

You’re so far off the subject it’s not even funny anymore, and I believe that you’re doing it on purpose.

Of course they are! Tc101 latest contribution continues the self contradiction amongst this group.

Let's keep it civil in here please and thank you.

David, they have been at it like this for a very long time and they are even contradicting themselves just to derail the thread. They cannot even manage continuity amongst themselves. It is the same people at it all the time and this forum, which does feed into your business, is suffering because of them. It is not just the case of a free speech issue in their favour. Their behaviour has actually curtailed the speech of many over the years by the constant harrying, straw man arguments and pack like behaviour. For each person they see off from these boards you loose another potential subscriber to your mag. Indeed, people will judge your magazine by what these very forums are like.

[JPinAZ]

Of course they are! Tc101 latest contribution continues the self contradiction amongst this group.

David, they have been at it like this for a very long time and they are even contradicting themselves just to derail the thread. They cannot even manage continuity amongst themselves. It is the same people at it all the time and this forum, which does feed into your business, is suffering because of them. It is not just the case of a free speech issue in their favour. Their behaviour has actually curtailed the speech of many over the years by the constant harrying, straw man arguments and pack like behaviour. For each person they see off from these boards you loose another potential subscriber to your mag. Indeed, people will judge your magazine by what these very forums are like.

Really? So much for taking David's advice/warning.

I for one think this forum would be done a great justice if this entire thread simply disappeared.

[KPM]

the idiocy of some of the replies in this thread which are nothing more than poor attempts to bully and be oppositional for oppositions sake. Such posts are a good example of the type of character that some of you have and it 'aint a positive one. For a very long time such people have been bringing down these forums and driving contributors away. That is how I see it.

I see it plain and clear and agree with you.

[Paddington]

Really? Just can't help yourself eh? So much for taking David's advice/warning.

I for one think this forum would be done a great justice if this entire thread simply disappeared. You know, to save Gene from losing further customers and stop this notorious gang that is looking to silence people and take money out of his pocket

I was perfectly civil. Using a collective pronoun is not to be uncivil. If this thread goes I will just post up what I wrote again as there is nothing wrong with my opening post. As others have suggested, it is the case of certain people intentionally derailing threads and then calling for locks and deletion. Your behaviour does fit this pattern and is uncivil.

[GlennR]

David, they have been at it like this for a very long time and they are even contradicting themselves just to derail the thread. They cannot even manage continuity amongst themselves. It is the same people at it all the time and this forum, which does feed into your business, is suffering because of them. It is not just the case of a free speech issue in their favour. Their behaviour has actually curtailed the speech of many over the years by the constant harrying, straw man arguments and pack like behaviour. For each person they see off from these boards you loose another potential subscriber to your mag. Indeed, people will judge your magazine by what these very forums are like.

Seriously P.... i mean seriously, get over yourself
I was the first to reply to this thread saying....

Hi Paddington
No one on here, that i can recall, actually said that his ideas had no merit. In fact a lot of people agreed with him on things like 7 bows etc.

See the word ageed?

Plenty of the folk here saw some merit in his ideas, even when they are just recycled from others, but merit nonetheless.
Two or three replies in and you start with pseudo-intellectual claptrap trying to stand on the "higher ground" and you wonder why people get their nose out of joint with you now!!

Honestly, did you learn to devolve all social skills while training with Hendrik?

Mate, lets try again

You said

I argued that the idea of the 'bows' is actually a lower order concept as it relies on sensation and feeling and discovering the body. One can focus or have intent at each of the 'bows' and attempt relaxation through each of them sequentially. What is more when one looks and experiments with the alignment of bows, inasmuch as achieving good structure, the mind's focus and intent is further refined to those muscle groupings responsible and it makes it easier for students to attain the required relaxation and body sensations, to achieve good structure and actually 'feel through their bones and joints', jin flow.

Having recently taken on a few students I experimented with delivering the basics as my previous Sifu had done with some of them and with the others, I used the idea of the bows and more meditative exercises to enhance relaxation and body sensation first. In my overly small and unrepresentative sample I found that those I took through the second path were able to progress more quickly.

Now, not using the term "bows" im a TST guy and he basically does the same thing, and im sure he's not alone in this way of teaching.
Get it?????

Hendrik has NOT found anything new, its all out there already, and if you want to keep your eyes blinkered and follow Hendriks ideas like some cult member then off you go.

Now back to your bubble and say hi to Hendrik for me

[JPinAZ]

I was perfectly civil. Using a collective pronoun is not to be uncivil. If this thread goes I will just post up what I wrote again as there is nothing wrong with my opening post. As others have suggested, it is the case of certain people intentionally derailing threads and then calling for locks and deletion. Your behaviour does fit this pattern and is uncivil.

Sure, and if you bat your eyes, does that make you appear even more innocent? Because you're not above any of the criticism you are giving everyone else.

Look, you can turn and twist things however you want. But I've added my viewpoint on more than a couple posts on this thread in an attempt to stay on-topic and forward the discussion - regardless of the side-noise going on. See posts 48, 62 and 76 for quick examples. Yes, there are parts where I don't agree with you or Hendrik, but that's my right. If you can't handle disagreements, then maybe you should stop making posts about subjects like this. But there were several people that agreed with my views even if you didn't. Get over it. Heck, in one of my posts I even pointed that it appeared that me, you and Sanjuro were in semi-agreement on some things! So I don't see your problem, unless you're just trying to create one to meet some agenda..

Now, what did you really expect when you create a thread on what is an obviously controversial subject & person as of late on this forum? That everyone was just going to join hands, all agree in unison and then have a big group hug around the camp fire? And, you are conveniently ignoring the fact that there was another person here with the sole intention to disrupt and make such personal, ugly and derogatory insinuations that they unfortunately got banned. Where was your condescending & chastising post for them?

[KPM]

Hendrik has NOT found anything new, its all out there already, and if you want to keep your eyes blinkered and follow Hendriks ideas like some cult member then off you go.

Now back to your bubble and say hi to Hendrik for me

Honestly Glenn? You must not be reading very closely. Paddington said in that very first post:

Contrary to popular belief those ideas are in Ip Man wing chun and something that I have heard and seen passed on by those good folks at the VTAA in HK, as well as through their representatives in the UK.

[GlennR]

Honestly Glenn? You must not be reading very closely. Paddington said in that very first post:

Contrary to popular belief those ideas are in Ip Man wing chun and something that I have heard and seen passed on by those good folks at the VTAA in HK, as well as through their representatives in the UK.

And when i asked him..........

You're right to a degree, I did skim over your initial thread starter so for someone that struggles to read your somewhat convoluted post....... What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

He ignored me.

Selective reading from you too Keith??

[KPM]

And when i asked him..........

You're right to a degree, I did skim over your initial thread starter so for someone that struggles to read your somewhat convoluted post....... What exactly is the point you are trying to make?

He ignored me.

Selective reading from you too Keith??

No. Not at all. I assumed, as Paddington must have, that you are perfectly capable of going back and rereading rather than skimming his initial post. But obviously, you didn't bother.

[GlennR]

No. Not at all. I assumed, as Paddington must have, that you are perfectly capable of going back and rereading rather than skimming his initial post. But obviously, you didn't bother.

I did, and it still appears to me that he thinks Hendrik is onto something new........ isnt that what the threads about?

So when i ask him to clarify it he ignores me as you just have.

But hey, that was always Hendriks way as well

[KPM]

I did, and it still appears to me that he thinks Hendrik is onto something new........ isnt that what the threads about?

So when i ask him to clarify it he ignores me as you just have.

But hey, that was always Hendriks way as well

Contrary to popular belief those ideas are in Ip Man wing chun and something that I have heard and seen passed on by those good folks at the VTAA in HK, as well as through their representatives in the UK.

When I respond to someone multiple times I am accused of being somewhat "hysterical." When I don't I am accused of "ignoring." Guess I can't win for losing around here. I also can't help you with your reading comprehension skills. Sorry about that!

[GlennR]

Contrary to popular belief those ideas are in Ip Man wing chun and something that I have heard and seen passed on by those good folks at the VTAA in HK, as well as through their representatives in the UK.

When I respond to someone multiple times I am accused of being somewhat "hysterical." When I don't I am accused of "ignoring." Guess I can't win for losing around here. I also can't help you with your reading comprehension skills. Sorry about that!

Gee Keith, sorry i asked him to clarify his position

How **** unreasonable of me!!!!!

But thats ok, you seem to enjoy the emotional gratification from trying to prove someone elses unverified point

[Paddington]

[...]
Now, not using the term "bows" im a TST guy and he basically does the same thing, and im sure he's not alone in this way of teaching.
Get it?????

Hendrik has NOT found anything new, its all out there already, and if you want to keep your eyes blinkered and follow Hendriks ideas like some cult member then off you go.

Now back to your bubble and say hi to Hendrik for me

GlennR, you are still missing the point. At no point had I said that Hendrik had discovered something new. He does not even claim that himself. The point I made and what I offered up for debate were the merits and disadvantages of introducing the 6 or 7 seven reference points from day one. I also argued that they were simple concepts to introduce. It is not me that is in a bubble here.

I did, and it still appears to me that he thinks Hendrik is onto something new........ isnt that what the threads about?

So when i ask him to clarify it he ignores me as you just have.

But hey, that was always Hendriks way as well

I will quote myself because it shows that you have not read what I have previously written to clarify;

[...] When you review Hendrik's material one of the things he does is to introduce those 6 or 7 reference points really early on for beginners. What they are called or how they should be referred to is not the point I am making. Rather, I focus on Hendrik's suggestion that they should be introduced early on [...]

Nearly every charge you have levied at me I have shown to be wrong.

[Minghequan]

Paddington

Are you in any way connected to Hendrik? Are you in communication with him?

[Paddington]

Paddington

Are you in any way connected to Hendrik? Are you in communication with him?

I've spoken to Hendrik in the past via emails such as when I asked him to clarify points on linking breathing and movement. I also asked him via email, if I remember correctly, to clarify the details of the foot's coupling with the ground and in which order he thought it best to relax each of the joints or 'bows'. With regards to the latter question he posted up a video to respond. I don't think I was the only one asking those questions.

Ron, I don't take anyone's word for it and prefer to try it out for myself and all I said was that introducing these 6 or 7 reference points from day one, really helps people new to wing chun to improve.

EDIT: As you know the PM system on these boards has a word limit and if I asked Hendrik questions via making threads on these boards, said threads would just be disrupted by a lot of negativity.

EDIT2: Just to clarify my relationship with Hendrik, it is no different from my relationship to you in that I met him via these boards, PMed him a few times and engaged in email conversations with him.