Return to Emei

[tc101]

Sergio does seem to pick and choose - to cherry pick when it suits him.

He lists YKS WCK, on his website, as one of the "lineages responsible for the creation of the complete picture of the IWKA Wing Tjun system." He also lists Yip Man WCK and Lohan.

At the start of his first video on the basic stance, he says he is explaining how the stance "got misinterpreted through history by the low-educated farmers in Foshan," and how, being unable to read, the farmers misunderstood the meaning behind the words. Essentially, they misunderstood the pronunciation of WCK's terminology, he says.

Of course, both YKS and YM were from wealthy families (they weren't farmers) and both were educated men. It is hard to imagine that these educated people misunderstood the system they spent most of their lives training and developing.

Sergio adds: "Some lineages even go so far as to totally squeeze the legs like this [shows the stance much as it is used in YKS WCK], instead of performing the YJKYM as it should be done."

Somehow, despite YKS WCK using the basic training stance the wrong way (according to Sergio), YKS WCK is also validation of Emei Zhuang being a parent art of Wing Chun and the use of Hendrik's seven bows.

I know two people who have met Sifu Sergio and both say he is very skilled. He probably is. But his logic is all over the place, IMO, and he's picking bits and pieces from different systems (various WCK lineages, plus Weng Chun, Lohan, White Crane, Emei Zhuang) using what supports his ideas and conveniently ignoring parts of these systems (or dismissing them as being "uneducated misunderstandings") if that don't support his ideas.

Anyone can be wrong - there's no problem in saying you got something mixed up. But first Sergio talks about Chi Sim, then Black Flag, now Emei Zhuang. He still teaches components of these to this day. As you can see in his website's list:

http://www.wingtjun.com/iwka/sifu-se...g-tjun-system/

I think a huge problem with guys like Sergio and Hendrik is they think that there is a one right way to do wing chun and so they use the s word "should". You should do this or that. These guys are stuck on the model and think there is a one best original model that we all should do. Anyone doing things differently even though they may be extremely effective doing it are simply poor uninformed people to be pitied.

Of course Sergio and Hendrik can't really use the things they talk about they just know intellectually that's how they should be done.

I think the only uneducated misunderstanding comes from Sergio and Hendrik in not realizing that the model is just a model and not the substance and ultimately the model isn't even important. Practitioners that is guys who really spar or fight like YKS or SN or the guys doing it today know from direct experience that the model is not the substance. Guys like Sergio and Hendrik who lack this direct experience don't know so they are uneducated the education being sparring or fighting and that leads to their misunderstanding.

[anerlich]

Does all this emei Zhuang white Crane original Yik Kam Wing Chun have to do with hindrik and Sergio , Robert Chu makeing alot of money for themselves and getting lots of students and fame being the top Wing Chun Man in the world today ?

I despair for one with so cynical a view.

But I wouldn't bet against the truth of that statement.

[anerlich]

Amazing. The dot in the "I" on Sergio's name is now copyrighted.

I think Spinal Tap copyrighted the i witout the dot above it decades ago. It's good Sergio got in before all the permutations got snapped up.

If you want to use an i with a dot now, you need permission from both Spinal Tap and Sergio.

[kentchang]

Nothing exciting is happening. Sergio Iadarola just does the same thing again and again by telling us he has found the origin of WCK. Again and again his information has been proven false. His methods are not professional because he does not verify the credibility of his sources.

Sergio does seem to pick and choose - to cherry pick when it suits him.

He lists YKS WCK, on his website, as one of the "lineages responsible for the creation of the complete picture of the IWKA Wing Tjun system." He also lists Yip Man WCK and Lohan.

At the start of his first video on the basic stance, he says he is explaining how the stance "got misinterpreted through history by the low-educated farmers in Foshan," and how, being unable to read, the farmers misunderstood the meaning behind the words. Essentially, they misunderstood the pronunciation of WCK's terminology, he says.

What was Sergio Iadarola's problem? Has Sergio found the original WCK from these people like Andrea Hoffman, Kenneth Lin, Hendrik Santo and Robert Chu yet? Can Sergio answer these questions posted by Sifu Wayne Yung? Learning all these facts, he just needed to change his perspective.

Originally posted by ccwayne
On this matter, the victim is Sergio. I had already phoned Sergio's sifu So 6 weeks ago to ask Sergio slowing down the production on the True orign of wck video, I asked his sifu to advise Sergio thinking over a bit, reasoning, then continue. Sergio, did I do that ?

Questions I made to his sifu to Sergio. :
1. Hendrik's ykwc kuen kuit, had been validated or not?
2. No one watched his full set in the past and make mysterious to others because he mentioned a lot and a lot on section 2,3 and 4 in years. If he intends to let wckners learn, why not opening it up with his kuit. Why he goes to Sergio? why he stay with me for years.
3. How long he stayed with Cho hung choy before he went to US? how deep he learnt his ykwc
4. ykwc from Cho's family, interesting things, cho family ones, form and kuit are not authenic, but Hendrik holds the full set,
5. Why only he knows emei, but no other lineages, even yik Kam, and Cho's family, Law's family scwc never knows any emei. Before his ykwc kuit released to the public, is it possible some emei like kuit had been modified then it makes it not look like Cho's family kuit ?

Sergio is reporting information from Robert Chu and Hendrik Santo that Ermei is the origin of WCK. Thanks to Sifu Wayne Yung of HK, for exposing Robert Chu's agenda to use Sergio for personal promotion.

Where and how did Robert Chu get his info from SCWC school?

Originally posted by ccwayne
2. How many hours I met with Robert Chu face to face. How much I can discuss with you about history (answer is never)? How many times you meet my sifu ( just once) and how long( less than 2 hours) ?

How can Sergio justify labeling the Foshan WCK people as low-educated farmers, when not once (Chi Sim Weng Chun) or twice (Black Flag hkb)but three times (Ermei 12 Zhuang) Sergio Iadarola reported having discovered the original wing chun? A true historian would have reported who is making those claims followed with verification. Chung Che Man also was Kenneth Lin's teacher and why didn't Sergio go to interview him? Perhaps Sergio is a low-educated farmer from the Netherlands, not a real researcher in China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBmH...=youtube_gdata

http://protectingrealshaolin.wordpre...sim-successor/

[ccwayne]

KentChang, more about how they make use of Sergio. Hendrik and Sergio should read it. The following was posted yesterday and it was totally removed in the thread "Inside The Snake Crane Wing Chun Controversy", and the thread was created by Jim Roselando yesterday, and now is locked.

1月28日
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:36
Robert Chu
Why not meet with Sergio? Clear up things. Get the credit you deserve. I believe in you.
I think you're doing a great job for our family.
Again, I think its just a misunderstanding. Brothers sometimes fight and learn more about each other.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:45
Wayne Yung
佢行為己超越我的底線很多，離晒譜，簡直不知所謂，無中生有。跟佢的，盡段，佢黐線的
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:47
Wayne Yung
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...c-announcement
A public announcement
www.kungfumagazine.com
A public announcement. The Wck information I present to the Wck world is based on the yik kam lineage and my own research and attainment for decades . I do not present any art of snake crane lineage because I have never study it and not in the position to present. As always, I recommended to wcners…
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:47
Robert Chu
OK, but that doesn't mean you cannot do for yourself.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:47
Wayne Yung
所做的只被人取笑
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:48
Robert Chu
Again, I only think that's just his way of saying he does not steal Snake Crane WCK
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:48
Wayne Yung
Robert, I need to stop all related to him.
That is what you think.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:49
Robert Chu
OK. Just cool down, brother. When the emotions are normal, you can sort out better.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:50
Wayne Yung
He can clean up with me. Actually, just a personal matter only. In the beginning with me only, later, with my scwc. Facebook not sufficient and need to post to kfo. hahah..
Of course, I understand that. I was quiet last week, because I want to let time rinse it off. However, I didn't realize he posted to kfo. What means. Do all the people there knowing his relationship with scwc? Why put scwc in a bad position openly.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:52
Robert Chu
Be at peace, brother.
I don't think people don't think much of it. Maybe you think too much of it?
He's just stating he has no SCWC documents in his possession.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:53
Wayne Yung
I cannot stand for such behaviour. Will I bring out all his stuff to the public and saying I have no relation with him any more. IT is not the public matter. He should think who he is.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:54
Robert Chu
Yes, I see your side. And I see his side.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:54
Wayne Yung
Yes, your are right, people jut gossipping around then will forget. My point is that it shouldn't be occurred any way.
Did I openly say anything even I am not happy with his actions ?
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:55
Robert Chu
People don't know details and generally don't think so deeply.
Most people just look at things superficially.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:55
Wayne Yung
I have my way to do scwc, and no need his help.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:56
Robert Chu
Of course. I just state for my opinion that you simply use Sergio for your own benefit, not let him use you, but you use him.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:57
Wayne Yung
Honest speaking, I never go to him, and just he came to me, try to make friendship, build up trust and take my things only.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:57
Robert Chu
HS?
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 10:58
Wayne Yung
I don't understand what you mean above. I use Sergio ?
Yes, it is HS. I don't know Sergio, and never to him before, just last night messaging only, is my first time message him.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 10:59
Robert Chu
I'm saying you take the opportunity to use him for publicity. That is all.
Honestly, you and HS mutally benefited.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:02
Wayne Yung
Robert, did I do anything open to public ? He is 無中生有，似是如非 in our llast Saturday conversation only. Then he started the war.
OK, if you took me in this way, I have nothing to say any more. For publicity, hahaha... Any actions on publicity I have done, but HS only.
Hahha... simple thing become more complex, now I make use of this for publicity. Remember all we still in the chatting room and via email to express my unhappiness on him. I still keep my mouth shut. I am not happy with him why bring those stuff on the table openly.
I have no intention on publicity.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:05
Robert Chu
Wayne, you will be Jeung Mun Yan, and HS is Jeung Mun Yan of YK WCK. We all know each other, we're all close to the same age. We will all be around for the next generation... we should get along.
I still do not think your ratings have suffered at all.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:06
Wayne Yung
Any way, I have nothing more to say. Please see any benefit I can gain if I make use of this as publicity.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:06
Robert Chu
You are still a great star in HK!
I am not saying the HS incident. That's already passed.
I am talking to expose more about our SCWC family.
Nothing to do with HS.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:07
Wayne Yung
hahaha... I am sorry I don't know I am a star in HK, provide that HS post more on me openly.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:07
Robert Chu
Sihing, you can be stubborn, too.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:08
Wayne Yung
OK, Robert, I know what I should do. anyway.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:08
Robert Chu
I think a lot of this is overthinking.l
What?
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:08
Wayne Yung
Let see whether I make use Sergio or not, that is what you think.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:08
Robert Chu
Yes.
Its just publicity for SCWC.
IN the west, you're hardly known.
It will be tremendous benefit, overall. Many will invite you for seminars to teach.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:10
Wayne Yung
robert, I never contact Sergio before, never never, He just whatapps me before he depart for Europe last week, and last night is my first time to say to him after his sifu Sunny So calling me yersterday.
OK! any way, you seems to bring another burning point up. No more to say. bye.
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:11
Robert Chu
You're not angry with me, are you?
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:12
Wayne Yung
You talk about me making use of others. hahah.... OK! I will never see Servio in my life. OK. Sure not to do. How come you think about me in this way.
Honest speaking, HS is making use of him ,just like making use of me.
I don't know him and no reason I need to contact him. hahahah...
Robert Chu
2014-1-28 11:13
Robert Chu
I just say for publicity. Please don't misunderstand.
I think you're sensitive now.
I only wish the best for you Wayne.
Please don't misunderstand me.
I think maybe I don't quite say it right. If so, I apologize, Si Hing.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:17
Wayne Yung
OK lah! I need to work. Robert, I have my job, my family, my students, my classes, my scwc works, .... I am not a superman. I cannot accept that HS everyday, make so many utubes and bringing our a lot of what he think theory to educate people and ME TOO. I am really tired on his works. He has just his wck only. nothing else.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:17
Wayne Yung
Everyday, he send me utubes, telling a lot on his wck works.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:22
Wayne Yung
He has his dream in his mind. However, whether is is realistic or not, he cannot make clear of himself. He is really sick on wck. In OCt, we had discusssed about his daily posting. You had mentioned you didn't response his posting because you respect him. Me too. Actually, I have a lot of objection on his utube explaination. eg 7 bows : if the 7th bow use as what he said, the whole body will become unstable and falling forward, Why the ancestors not discovered that, because they tried and found out. You can see a lot tcma, never raised it up. Maybe White Crane.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:25
Wayne Yung
I can explaqin the YJKYM more detail than what he said. Richard and John enjoyed my analysis on how to bring the direct pushing force to the ground and how the ground force reacts. Hahah.. He just think he is superior than others, but never think we respect and not to object him only. Yes, he know how to use the right term name, but doesn't mean his explaination truely right.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:26
Wayne Yung
Honest specaking, on our relastionship, it is his intention to gain something from scwc only. I never approach him.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:31
Wayne Yung
MoMore, I never ask him any about Yik Kam, but he make use a lot scwc to re-assemble his ykwc. I also never ask his kuen kuit, but he a lot he is interesting ours. I don't mind to share with him even he is not scwc because I trust him before his public announcemtn. However, what he reacted.... hhahaha.... He also said my Jealous of Sergio. hahah... Robert, how come I make use of Sergio for publicity. Please tell me. Do I plan to do this? Or Do we plan to do ? hahah.... Now, no Sergio, nothing more related to him and you will see that.
Wayne Yung
2014-1-28 11:33
Wayne Yung
Time will show me any deal with Sergio. hahaha...
無中生有，似是如非

[Minghequan]

Interesting! Can someone let us know why that post was removed???

[kentchang]

Sifu Yung and Sifu Ron, I can appreciate both of your inputs. However, due to the English language and American heretage barrier, sometimes I believe Sifu Yung's input may not be fully appreciated by some members because they view Sifu Yung's interactions with others as a personal issue on this forum. Once we bypass these personal issues, we can definitely appreciate all of the insites and information from the resepective Sifu Yung and his school, which offer a greater view into the Wing Chun history with dignity and not based on someone's personal ambition or agenda for self promotion. Rather than really offering a genunine history of the Wing Chun lineage, some people choose to distort the truth with their own personal gains in order to make personal benefit. That is why I can truly appreciate Sifu Yung's truthful presentation and insight. Sifu Ron is a stand up martial artist. Even though I have not met either of you two gentlemen, I do enjoy reading both of your posts and I wish you both the best in your continuation to support the Wing Chun community from your side by sharing the treasure of your art.

[Minghequan]

kentchang:

Sifu Yung and Sifu Ron, I can appreciate both of your inputs. However, due to the English language and American heretage barrier, sometimes I believe Sifu Yung's input may not be fully appreciated by some members because they view Sifu Yung's interactions with others as a personal issue on this forum. Once we bypass these personal issues, we can definitely appreciate all of the insites and information from the resepective Sifu Yung and his school, which offer a greater view into the Wing Chun history with dignity and not based on someone's personal ambition or agenda for self promotion. Rather than really offering a genunine history of the Wing Chun lineage, some people choose to distort the truth with their own personal gains in order to make personal benefit. That is why I can truly appreciate Sifu Yung's truthful presentation and insight. Sifu Ron is a stand up martial artist. Even though I have not met either of you two gentlemen, I do enjoy reading both of your posts and I wish you both the best in your continuation to support the Wing Chun community from your side by sharing the treasure of your art.

Thank you. I have been called a lot of things by a lot of people over the years so a "stand up martial artist" is nice to hear.

Sifu Yung a good man. He truly cares for the martial arts and traditional Chinese Martial Culture which is dwindling away as I type. For a great many here his language and manner of expression can be some what confronting and confusing. Please understand that English is not his native tongue and sometimes he struggles using it to get his view across. Also understand that he has spent a great many years imbedded within the Chinese Martial Culture and to those of us in the Western World looking in and not understanding how this cultural works, it can be a little confusing and all too often misinterpreted.

I have always maintained that if you seek to understand, truly understand, a chosen martial art especially those form the East, then you need to also understand the people and culture that gave rise to the art.

Again Sifu Yung is a good man, a giving man and this is perhaps his downfall as he has unselfishly of his time, his writings, himself and his art to others trusting that they would honour the art and culture only to discover later they do not place any honour in the art, the culture, or themselves.

Me personally, I am a nothing, a slightly overweight, grey haired nobody of very little knowledge and even less skill and I am truly happy with that and my station in life. I am a perennial seeker, learner and lover of the Martial Arts, in particular the Chinese and Filipino cultures that gave rise to same. But that is all I am. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do feel that it is time that we all returned to a kinder and far more honest period in time and at the very least strive to uphold some ethics of life such as common courtesy, mutual respect (agreeing to disagree) and spirit which have found their way into the core of the martial arts regardless of the culture from which they arose.

We should try talk to each other as if we were face to face with that person in a martial arts training hall environment. No doubt, if this was to be that a great many of you lie I, would not be so forward as we are here.

I know we don't always do this, I am one who has failed at this ... but we could at least ... try!

[ccwayne]

KentChang, thank you for your appreciation! I am not belonging here and someone brought my post from Facebook here only, and you can see how many I posted here.

I don't care how the people here treating me, but something related to 'public interest', the four mouses agenda trying to cheat wck people, I need to show them up only and let the people aware.

As I said before, all should be closed up after clarification two weeks ago.

However, like Jim, making his own stories on me again in the new created thread " Inside The Snake Crane Wing Chun Controversy". He said he need me to taste a hard pain. However, after Ron and I clarify what his own made stories are. Then some of the posts there getting removed, More the thread is locked. What for? Does it mean something they don't like to face the truth, Jim removed them. Something they like they will keep in this forum, and something they don't like, just remove them.

Like what they do on the thread "Sergio report on White Crane...". We can see, in this thread, Hendrik created it, but a lot of opposition on them showing they are liars, they create their stories, they mislead people on his Emei dream. Also, how Hendrik he said he steal GM Lee Kong kung fu. how Robert saying making use of Sergio. All those truth information are totally removed. What for ? As what Hendrik always said, let he wck historian and researcher find out. How the future historian and research find the truth what they did in this way, because the thread being removed?

What they did now on the thread "Sergio report on White Crane ..." and " Inside The Snake Crane Wing Chun Controversy " today. Do all the people here discussing something there ? Now, all removed without any reason. Something getting proved truth now getting totally destroyed, as they don't like that. I don't know whether those threads are their assets or public assets here. Something related to the public interest, I think they need to be kept permanently.

Thread: Inside The Snake Crane Wing Chun Controversy
Originally Posted by Jim Roselando View Post
I started this thread as I feel it was necessary to reply to the numerous answers by Wayne & Team to my post in a now closed thread. For those who have been following, I truly feel you will see an obvious two sided game being played when in reality those who have been arguing and complaining for many months actually agree with those they bash. If the list admin people do decide to close this thread then at least it will be viewable so that anyone who wants to read all sides can do just that...

Also, this will be my last reply to this thread. No doubt enough info has been shared by all parties for the readers to make up their minds and be also be tired of this nonsense...


***

If the truth hurts, I feel your pain.


***

Have a nice day!

:-)

1. The certificate Jim brought out, hahah... Ron openly puts on the facebook to let others sharing. If it is an undertable deal, don't you think Ron stupid enough to bring it out. haha.... Also, offering Ron an appreciation certificate is my decision, non of your business. Really your business!!!

2. I asked you going back and reading the ebook about my history. There are covered history in the past on all southern arts. How come one ChiSim can create so many arts. hahaha...

3. You asked me to post your Kulo paper in New Martial Hero magazine, I did, but I never asked you to submit a paper to your WCI. Never never never!!! What is WCI ? I am sorry I really don't know. Don't try put your thinking on me ? We are from the opposite sides of the earth ?

4. Don't you forget you owed me a dinner as you said you came to HK to pay for that in last December, but you never come. When do you pay for that ? because I requested me to post your Kulo paper to NMH, Hong Kong. Do I need to retreat those email openly how you are ?

5. You mentioned "My own ebook" try to make confusion to public. you should clearly know the ebook co-authored by Hendrik and me.

6. Yes, you got sick, all you try to dig something Personally out to bring to public attention. I have more and more. Please come and I let you know more, more and more.

7. As what I said in my last response to you, the Emei case should be closed, and I wouldn't like to respose to you any more. More, I believe people here around getting tired too.

8. I am sorry on your pain because of my last posting seriously hurt you. Of course, I feel that how you pain is.

9. I wouldn't response to you any more EVEN you badmouth me more and more. I am not supposed to be one of you in this forum. and also, I adapted to low key, no need to survive in your wck world.


Jim, I know what you are trying to do. However, you need to study more, not just listening to one person to say, then you and RC believe that. Efforts need to be paid!!! Like Sergio, at least he goes to Emei Mountain to investigate. What about you, Hendrik and Robert Chu ? However, today 峨眉金頂 (Emei Golden Peak) is commercialized, not the one I visited in 1985.

Jim, I can tell you, more and more I never talk to Hendrik and Robert, because they are strangers and I know why they approach me and stay with me for few years.

Of course we knows what SCWC is, but time not allowed us saying too much. Today, it is already Yip Man wck world. SCWC just floats up few years ago after 160 years. We can only hide our story behind today.

Actually, how much efforts you put on the studying WCK? Do you know the name 'Wing Chun' from ? How much you know 'Weng Chun Tong 永春堂' ? How much you know 'Sae Hoc Kuen 蛇鶴拳' in Redboat era ? Why the splitting from one long set (蛇鶴拳) to 3 forms set ? Why the Sae Hoc Kuen(蛇鶴拳) was chosen to deal with the tai ping tratiors ?

What else in SCWC ...........

[KPM]

Interesting! Can someone let us know why that post was removed???

People had posted copies of eMail correspondence. The question was asked as to whether these people had permission from the originator of the eMail to do that. No answer was forthcoming. I'm assuming that is why the post was removed and the thread was locked. But I could be wrong.

[KPM]

Once we bypass these personal issues, we can definitely appreciate all of the insites and information from the resepective Sifu Yung and his school, which offer a greater view into the Wing Chun history with dignity and not based on someone's personal ambition or agenda for self promotion. Rather than really offering a genunine history of the Wing Chun lineage, some people choose to distort the truth with their own personal gains in order to make personal benefit. That is why I can truly appreciate Sifu Yung's truthful presentation and insight. Sifu Ron is a stand up martial artist. Even though I have not met either of you two gentlemen, I do enjoy reading both of your posts and I wish you both the best in your continuation to support the Wing Chun community from your side by sharing the treasure of your art.

I'm all for reading some of that "genuine history"!!! Let's see it! Because it doesn't appear to have shown up here much. It seems all we have seen here are those "personal issues" that you reference. How about an actual positive and informative post from the Sifu Yung camp that actually shares some of that "genuine history"? That would be welcome as compared to the "he said, she said" bickering we have been seeing.

[Paddington]

I'm all for reading some of that "genuine history"!!! Let's see it! Because it doesn't appear to have shown up here much. It seems all we have seen here are those "personal issues" that you reference. How about an actual positive and informative post from the Sifu Yung camp that actually shares some of that "genuine history"? That would be welcome as compared to the "he said, she said" bickering we have been seeing.

I too look forwards to reading such contributions.