Wing chun long, medium, or short range sparring?

[Hendrik]

Sparing and chi sau is like production test and limit test for iPhone.

If the iPhone is not design and produce accordingly.

No matter how you test it , it will never give you the function and the quality which is not design in and build

You can only test what you have designed in and build

If you want to improve your function you need to know your design and production and then test for the limit or bind sport.


If one practice wck dont one wants to clearly know what is the engine and what it is for?

[tc101]

Sparing and chi sau is like production test and limit test for iPhone.

If the iPhone is not design and produce accordingly.

No matter how you test it , it will never give you the function and the quality which is not design in and build

You can only test what you have designed in and build

If you want to improve your function you need to know your design and production and then test for the limit or bind sport.


If one practice wck dont one wants to clearly know what is the engine and what it is for?

A martial art is not like an iPhone.

Here is a big red flag that tells you the speaker really really really does not know what they are talking about but is simply doing arm chair idle speculation. That red flag is arguing by analogy or metaphor.

[Hendrik]

A martial art is not like an iPhone.

Here is a big red flag that tells you the speaker really really really does not know what they are talking about but is simply doing arm chair idle speculation. That red flag is arguing by analogy or metaphor.

A martial art is a technology which based on a concept, platform, and building block similar to an iphone.

It is designed to do what it suppose to do.

Otherwise,

It is like trying to race a car without knowing is it a truck, a bicycle, a ponny cart......etc
it is a superticious believe.

A sparring based on a superticious believe is just a random spray based on blind faith.

[YouKnowWho]

You should ask yourself a simple question. Is your goal to be good in

- fighting, or
- presenting your style?

My goal is very clear. I care about how good that I can fight. I don't care about whether I can fight like my style or not.

Sparring is like to throw a new born baby into the river. That new born baby has to learn how to "float" first before that baby should worry about "how to swim perfectly".

There are 2 different ways to train MA.

1. You learn a style. You then try to spar by using that style (you learn how to swim perfectly on the dry land, you then jump into water).
2. You spar. Find out what tools that you need. You then go to fill up your toolbox (you jump into water, learn how to float. You then find a coach to teach you how to swim perfectly).

If you use the

- 1st approach, you will become the slave of your style.
- 2nd approach, you will become the master of all styles. If a coach can't teach everything that you want to know, you can go to another coach.

[Hendrik]

You should ask yourself a simple question. Is your goal to be good in

- fighting, or
- presenting your style?

My goal is very clear. I care about how good that I can fight. I don't care about whether I can fight like my style or not.

Sparring is like to throw a new born baby into the river. That new born baby has to learn how to "float" first before that baby should worry about "how to swim perfectly".

There are 2 different ways to train MA.

1. You learn a style. You then try to spar by using that style (you learn how to swim perfectly on the dry land, you then jump into water).
2. You spar. Find out what tools that you need. You then go to fill up your toolbox (you jump into water, learn how to float. You then find a coach to teach you how to swim perfectly).

If you use the

- 1st approach, you will become the slave of your style.
- 2nd approach, you will become the master of all styles. If a coach can't teach everything that you want to know, you can go to another coach.

That is your theory.

In reality,

You are not a master of all style but a good suai chiao player.

Also,

You was train in SC to do SC type of sparring. Not a new born baby throw in the river.






The same problem can be solved with MT, BJJ, WCK, SC...boxing .....but one need to know what one is train and good at.

In reality,
How effective is the re invent the wheel on glapling compare to go study glapling art? As a new born baby in the water which have big chance to drown?

[YouKnowWho]

You are not a master of all style but ...

The term "you are the master of all styles" mean "you have freedom to train any style that you want to".

If you request all WC guys have to use "snake engine, 6DFV, 7 bows, ...", that WC guy will never be able to throw a "roundhouse kick" in sparring because "that's not WC." Do you truly want to use "That's not WC" to restrict yourself from doing something for the rest of your life? I'll never allow that to happen to me.

You was train in SC to do SC type of sparring. Not a new born baby throw in the river.

In the following clip, do my guys spar like SC guys? They don't spar like kick boxer either. They fight that way because they believe that way of fighting will give them some advantage. I'll call that "rhino" style. Did I learned that from my SC teacher, or from my long fist teacher? I didn't.

Not trying to bring SC into WC discussion. I just use this clip to indicate "you don't have to fight like your style" and "you should fight anyway that you want to".

[Faux Newbie]

As an outside perspective.

The kicks in wing chun are fairly standard kung fu kicks, largely found in most styles. There are a sparing number of kicks in wing chun, but they are there.

When I see people attempting to fight looking like wing chun, they focus on chain punch and a couple of other things, and very sparingly on the kicks. (This is not unique to WC, I've seen people in my own style do this).

If your system has three kicks and a plethora of hand techniques (not specifically referring to WC on the actual numbers), say 5% of the techs are kicks, this does not mean that only 5% of the time, kicks will be performed. 100% of the instance where a kick is the best answer, the answer should be a kick. That's why the kicks made it into the system.

It is often brought up that in certain venues, kickboxing is the best response, and so naturally, kickboxing will come out. Some traditionalists will say that their style focuses on other things, small circles or deadly techniques, this sort of answer.

I do not disagree that martial arts includes a lot of moves that you cannot safely train in sparring, because the harm they seek to inflict is beyond fair training practices. So sparring and competing (whether mma or san shou or chi sau) can only include what most of the time does not permanently harm the partner.

On the flip side, most martial arts include punches and kicks that fit in competitive venues. If one cannot use them in those venues, the idea that they can use more complex small circle or technical material in resisting practice is highly questionable.

Sparring and competition is a practice with limits, just as chi sao is. Different limits, but limits nonetheless. But the failure to translate one's practice into it cannot be blamed on the style if the style has the techniques that are used in it. This would be like blaming chi sao for not allowing you to bring your broadsword into it. Failure is not being able to apply the techniques that are being trained in that practice, not in the venue or format of the training.

Lastly, kung fu styles are mma by definition. Otherwise, how does one explain that each kung fu system, at its origin, has a tremendous amount of technique from styles that came before is? This is true of every kung fu style one looks at. Same stances, same applications. Of course, there is some original work, but most of the material is influenced by the kung fu of its time. To look at a style as the only necessary one is to refute its founder's grounding in previous kung fu without really understanding that previous kung fu. I cannot name a single lifelong martial artist who does just one style. Not one. I can name a plethora of 20-30 year olds who do, and tell others to do the same.

Lifelong martial artists enter into martial arts to attain skills, to become more than what they are. From there, they are often derailed in their goals by protecting lineage, by needing what they do to be the only right way. This is a disservice to the student. Truly traditional teachers are pleased with teaching experienced people, even if their experiences are different.

[Faux Newbie]

To add:

There is merit in knowing how your style responds to fighting.

There is no merit in not knowing how other styles respond to fighting.

There is merit in recognizing the realities of fighting based on what they are.

There is not merit on only recognizing the merits of fighting when they coincide with what your style recognizes based on what you've been told.

[Hendrik]

The term "you are the master of all styles" mean "you have freedom to train any style that you want to".--------

Master of all styles and freedom to train any style is not the same.

Even those who is good in one style can train and integrate what they need into their practice .





If you request all WC guys have to use "snake engine, 6DFV, 7 bows, ...", that WC guy will never be able to throw a "roundhouse kick" in sparring because "that's not WC." Do you truly want to use "That's not WC" to restrict yourself from doing something for the rest of your life? I'll never allow that to happen to me. -------


Snake engine, 7 bows.... Are just science of Wck handling, it doesn't restrict one but support one to masters ones body.
Anyone can learn a roundhouse kick if they need one.

Sparring is to test ones skill and blind spot.
Got nothing to do with is or not WC.






Does my guys sparred like SC guys in this clip? They don't fight like kick boxer either. They fight that way because they believe that way of fighting will give them some advantage. I'll call that "rhino" style. Did I learned that from my SC teacher, or from my long fist teacher? I didn't. ------


You are free to compose or create your own style.

However,
Your guys are not new born baby who is clueless and being throw into water.

Instead they are condition by your "Style."





Not trying to bring SC into WC discussion. I just use this clip to indicate "you don't have to fight like your style" and "you should fight anyway that you want to". -------


My point is not about to fight like a style, but everyone needs to start from somewhere , similar to your guys with your style. And know exactly what they are doing.

Your guys is not being throw into sparring like a new born baby into water, to figure out what is going on and invent their response . But a conditioned baby who was taught to swim in a certain way by you.



It is like, one needs to know if one is using iPhone or android phone. Instead of go invent their own phone from scratch or new born baby.

[Hendrik]

To add:

There is merit in knowing how your style responds to fighting.

There is no merit in not knowing how other styles respond to fighting.

There is merit in recognizing the realities of fighting based on what they are.

There is not merit on only recognizing the merits of fighting when they coincide with what your style recognizes based on what you've been told.

Why make life so difficult , find out what the style engine and strategy offer, find out how complete is the training combat scenarios cover . And work from there to expand further .

[YouKnowWho]

Here is a simple question.

Both you and your opponent have right side forward (uniform stance), In the middle of the sparring, your opponent suddenly switches sides and puts his left side forward. Will your left back leg just kick out as a "waist level roundhouse kick" without thinking (even if the roundhouse kick may not exist in your style)?

In TCMA, there is a principle that's called "fill in the leak". You attack when your opponent's body is open for you. This is just common sense and has nothing to do with style.

[Hendrik]

Here is a simple question.

Bot you and your opponent have right side forward (uniform stance), In the middle of the sparring, your opponent suddenly switches sides and puts his left side forward. Will your left back leg just kick out as a waist level roundhouse kick without think (even if the roundhouse kick may not exist in your style)?

You are now talk about style.

There are many different counter or response can be.
And what is your goal of taking that move?



Why roundhouse kick?
Why not step in to destroy center axis via inner gate?
Why not front kick?
Why not side kick?
Why not step side capture outer gate?

[YouKnowWho]

When you and your opponent both have right sides forward, you can't enter his "front door". When he switches sides, you can enter his "front door" now. Your left back leg roundhouse kick will be the best tool to be used at that moment.

Both front kick and side kick are straight line attack. It works as a spear. The roundhouse kick is a circular attack, it works as a staff. When you have right side forward and your opponent has left side forward, the best angle to attack is a 45 degree angle from your left. Your straight line attack won't work well from that angle.

[Hendrik]

When you and your opponent both have right sides forward, you can't enter his "front door". When he switches sides, you can enter his "front door" now. Your left back leg roundhouse kick will be the best tool to be used at that moment.

What is the different, instead of using left roundhouse kick but right leg step into between his leg? Which is faster? Less motion needed? And penetrating to destroy the structure?

[YouKnowWho]

What is the different, instead of using left roundhouse kick but right leg step into between his leg? Which is faster? Less motion needed? And penetrating to destroy the structure?

His left leading leg may still be in your advance path and prevent you from stepping in between his legs. Most people switch sides by pulling the leading leg back. This will increase the distance between you and your opponent. Since leg is longer than the arm, a kick is more proper than the punch at that moment.