Wing chun long, medium, or short range sparring?

[Hendrik]

His left leading leg may still be in your advance path and prevent you from passing his left leading leg.

Roundhouse kick might be too slow due to big movement.


One can knee his leg in the advance path while entering and still make damage to his structure.



You have a choice to get in via inner gate direct or outer gate via round house kick


depend on you style characteristics and footwork.

[Hendrik]

John,

Face it , there is no single solution.

In fact, if your style is close range strike, one move in.
If your style is long fist, you use roundhouse kick taking the outer gate path.


Boiled down to what do you used to.
That call for knowing ones own style one good at. It is not throwing new born baby into water. Never is the case.

[YouKnowWho]

Roundhouse kick might be too slow due to big movement.

One can knee his leg in the advance path and still make damage to his structure.

If you have to move your rooting leg and then attack, that will be 2 steps process. If you can use your leading right leg as your rooting leg, you can use your left attacking leg just as 1 step process. Whether you want to use your left knee to strike on his leading left leg, or to use your left foot instep to strike on his belly, that will be your choice. If you want to knock your opponent down ASAP, the instep roundhouse kick on his belly may be quicker.

[Hendrik]

If you have to move your rooting leg and then attack, that will be 2 steps process. If you can use your leading right leg as your rooting leg, you can use your left attacking leg just as 1 step process. Whether you want to use your left knee to strike on his leading left leg, or to use your left foot instep to strike on his belly, that will be your choice. If you want to knock your opponent down ASAP, the instep roundhouse kick on his belly may be quicker.

Depend on what you are good at in your style training.


If I use kyokushin I will use the roundhouse kick . If I use Wck I will step in

But
Throwing a new born baby into this type of sparring Vesus the experience will get hit by either move.

[Faux Newbie]

Why make life so difficult , 1) find out what the style engine and strategy offer, 2) find out how complete is the training combat scenarios cover . 3)And work from there to expand further .

NUMBERS ADDED ABOVE FOR EASE OF REFERENCE.

Number 2 is impossible without knowing something about other fighting methods one encounters. To know the completeness of one's system, one is examining how complete it is against other techniques that exist or have existed or could exist.

Fighting is the combination of more than one person with other people, martial method is seeking to understand it within a framework that allows one to impose on that combination for favorable results, it is not ignoring the other person. What you describe requires what you refer to as making life difficult to fulfill it.

Know yourself, know your enemy. This requires familiarity with other systems. One does not need to train all methods, but there is no merit in avoiding knowledge of them.

Much of kung fu has similar engines, but how those engines can be applied require knowledge of what an opponent may do. I am not familiar of a single system developed worth mention that was not developed by someone who clearly had familiarity with other systems. To mimic the system and not the founder is to rely on that which the founder themselves found only partially reliable in their day, else they would not have honed a new system. If they were alive today, they would likely have expanded on the system based on new information, just as they did in life.

[YouKnowWho]

John,

Face it , there is no single solution.

In fact, if your style is close range strike, one move in.
If your style is long fist, you use roundhouse kick taking the outer gate path.


Boiled down to what do you used to.
That call for knowing ones own style one good at. It is not throwing new born baby into water. Never is the case.

Now you bring the word "style" into discussion. Why restrict yourself as "close range"? If you can use roundhouse kick and haymaker effectively, you have a long range kicking tool as well as a long range punching tool.

Some tools are just so easy to be integrated into your style. You don't even need to learn

- MT to use roundhouse kick, or
- CLF to use haymaker.

[Hendrik]

NUMBERS ADDED ABOVE FOR EASE OF REFERENCE.

Number 2 is impossible without knowing something about other fighting methods one encounters. To know the completeness of one's system, one is examining how complete it is against other techniques that exist or have existed or could exist.

Fighting is the combination of more than one person with other people, martial method is seeking to understand it within a framework that allows one to impose on that combination for favorable results, it is not ignoring the other person. What you describe requires what you refer to as making life difficult to fulfill it.

Know yourself, know your enemy. This requires familiarity with other systems. One does not need to train all methods, but there is no merit in avoiding knowledge of them.

Much of kung fu has similar engines, but how those engines can be applied require knowledge of what an opponent may do. I am not familiar of a single system developed worth mention that was not developed by someone who clearly had familiarity with other systems. To mimic the system and not the founder is to rely on that which the founder themselves found only partially reliable in their day, else they would not have honed a new system. If they were alive today, they would likely have expanded on the system based on new information, just as they did in life.

IMHO

1. No one has complete art

2. Fujian white crane 1800 has general 48 scenerio
Wck has 18

[Hendrik]

Now you bring the word "style" into discussion. Why restrict yourself as "close range"? If you can use roundhouse kick and haymaker effectively, you have a long range kicking tool as well as a long range punching tool.

Some tools are just so easy to be integrated into your style. You don't even need to learn

- MT to use roundhouse kick, or
- CLF to use haymaker.

Depend on your engine you develop.

[Faux Newbie]

Assuming one can control the fight assumes that one is not fighting an equal.

If one wishes to get close, they can step in. If their opponent wishes to stay outside, they can step out at an angle.

Training for fighting is rational, training for only one aspect of fighting assumes that one is always in full control. which means one is always fighting the less skilled. Equal skill means many things could happen. Ending up on the ground, long range, short range, all are very possible if both people are equal in skill and have different goals.

To train to get in close, or get in position for throwing, or to stay in long range when one has reach and wishes to use it, are rational. Expecting to always be in that range is not, it assumes one will never meet an equal, it is training to fight lessers. This is not method.

[Faux Newbie]

IMHO

1. No one has complete art

2. Fujian white crane 1800 has general 48 scenerio
Wck has 18

I understand your view in this sense.

[YouKnowWho]

Throwing a new born baby into this type of sparring Vesus the experience will get hit by either move.

It's very popular in US to let a new born baby to learn how to float. That baby may even learn how to swim like a dog (Chinese call that doggy style) without a teacher.

[Faux Newbie]

It's very popular in US to let a new born baby to learn how to float. That baby may even learn how to swim like a dog (Chinese call that doggy style) without a teacher.

We call it dog paddle, and yes, there are some things one does almost naturally, when they are also part of the overall method, it is good for the teacher to get out of the way and let nature teach. Some teachers don't like not being the source for all things. I think it was Mengzi who said the problem with people is that they are too fond of acting as teacher. I may be mistaken on that.

[Hendrik]

It's very popular in US to let a new born baby to learn how to float. That baby may even learn how to swim like a dog (Chinese call that doggy style) without a teacher.

If you are geneous, it works, if not, better study a style to learn how to deal with the situation before take things on ones own.

That is the reason of education is needed

[JPinAZ]

For the record. I won't argue with T in what you quoted either. Because for once he defined "sparring" as Sparring is nothing more than a process of taking your art whatever it is and practicing trying to use it against some one really fighting you back and from that developing better and better ability at using your art.

By that definition, the "progressive training" or "progressive sparring" I talked about elsewhere fits with what T is saying, whether either of you are willing to acknowledge it or not. This includes the scenario training I described from Krav Maga. But since you haven't acknowledged anything I have had to say on the topic so far, I expect you will disagree with me. But I put it out there for anyone following along with any interest in the topic.

Does 'acknowledge' = 'agree' in your world? I didn't realize I had to verbally 'acknowledge' everything you say when I read it, but Ok here ya go: I formally acknowledge what you said.
Guess what, I still don't agree that your definition and his are the same, and wonder if he would either. As a matter of fact he doesn't and he stated as such. The important question is, are you doing what he's talking about? No need to answer, I know you've already said you won't answer it to me because I didn't ask nicely enough for you. Maybe just ask/see if you're being honest with yourself

Know what's really funny in all of this? You talk about him more now that you have him on 'ignore' that you did to him before you started 'ignoring' him. Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it if you're not really ignoring him at all? Actually, I think it's worse because, while you won't address his comments directly, now you just kinda talk behind his back about him without giving him the chance to reply....

[Paddington]

NUMBERS ADDED ABOVE FOR EASE OF REFERENCE.

Number 2 is impossible without knowing something about other fighting methods one encounters. To know the completeness of one's system, one is examining how complete it is against other techniques that exist or have existed or could exist.

Fighting is the combination of more than one person with other people, martial method is seeking to understand it within a framework that allows one to impose on that combination for favorable results, it is not ignoring the other person. What you describe requires what you refer to as making life difficult to fulfill it.

Know yourself, know your enemy. This requires familiarity with other systems. One does not need to train all methods, but there is no merit in avoiding knowledge of them.

Much of kung fu has similar engines, but how those engines can be applied require knowledge of what an opponent may do. I am not familiar of a single system developed worth mention that was not developed by someone who clearly had familiarity with other systems. To mimic the system and not the founder is to rely on that which the founder themselves found only partially reliable in their day, else they would not have honed a new system. If they were alive today, they would likely have expanded on the system based on new information, just as they did in life.

A great post, as are the others you have made in this thread. Where have you been all my life?