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Thread: How will Cung Le do in the Twilight of his career?

  1. #31

    Cung Le proclaims innocence

    MMAfighting.com posted Cung Le's Facebook statement here.
    "I was completely surprised at the results of my recent drug test," Le stated. "I was informed by the UFC that I passed my pre and post-fight drug test as well as the majority of the blood tests with the only abnormality being an elevated level of hGH being determined to be present. I tested negative for Anabolics, Stimulants, Diuretics, Masking Agents and my Testosterone levels were within World Anti- Doping Agency and Nevada State [sic] Athletic Commission approved limits a total of three times over two urine tests and a blood test collected both before and after my fight which is what makes these hGH result so difficult for me to accept as correct."
    "I have been informed that there are many possible reasons for a level of hGH to exceed what is allowed unknowingly and my doctors are researching those possibilities, which may include a much more serious health concern," Le continued. "I have also been informed about the unreliability of the current hGH testing that exists and it's high rate of inaccuracy. I want to reiterate to my fans and the fans of mixed martial arts everywhere that I did not take any performance enhancing drugs or anything that would cause my natural level of hGH to exceed normal levels. "
    Cung Le's facebook page shared this article: Cung Le fires back: 'I did not take any performance enhancing drugs'
    “I WANT TO REITERATE TO MY FANS AND THE FANS OF MIXED MARTIAL ARTS EVERYWHERE THAT I DID NOT TAKE ANY PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS OR ANYTHING THAT WOULD CAUSE MY NATURAL LEVEL OF HGH TO EXCEED NORMAL LEVELS”
    Last edited by @PLUGO; 10-02-2014 at 01:45 PM. Reason: More breaking news!

  2. #32
    I hope he is telling the truth but at this point what can he do? Other fighters have tested positive and gotten their doctors to look in to the situation coming up with plausible explanations (ex. Alistair Overeem's doctor admitted to giving him medication with synthetic testosterone) only to be forced to serve their suspensions and be labeled cheaters the rest of their careers. It is a shame that this is happening to Cung Le.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay View Post
    I hope he is telling the truth but at this point what can he do? Other fighters have tested positive and gotten their doctors to look in to the situation coming up with plausible explanations (ex. Alistair Overeem's doctor admitted to giving him medication with synthetic testosterone) only to be forced to serve their suspensions and be labeled cheaters the rest of their careers. It is a shame that this is happening to Cung Le.
    of course hes not telling the truth. being a good fighter does not mean a good person.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    of course hes not telling the truth. being a good fighter does not mean a good person.
    True and what was he going to say, whoops sorry I got caught wont happen again, no fighter ever does this they all plead ignorance lol I suspect his use is as much to do with getting in movie shore than anything else

  5. #35
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    Supposedly there are a few natural products that can increase the levels of HGH.
    People forget that it is not only for PED's that they test but for the RESULTS of PED's ( more people get caught because of that than getting caught on an ACTUAL PED).
    The issue then becomes this:
    Is it OK to increase your HGH ( or testosterone for example) if you do it "naturally" as opposed through injections?

    IMO, it is exactly the same thing.
    IMO, they shouldn't even test for that stuff anyways.
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  6. #36

    In Cung Le's case, a drug test with legitimate doubts, but an unclear appeal process

    MMA Junkie just posted this piece: In Cung Le's case, a drug test with legitimate doubts, but an unclear appeal process

    …as anti-doping scientist Dr. Don Catlin put it to MMAjunkie: “I think (the test done by the UFC) is useless. I wouldn’t pay any attention to it all.”

    The problem, according to Catlin, is that testing for HGH is a tricky business. In order to do it accurately, you need to do it at a lab approved by and operating under the standards of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). The UFC, instead, went through the Hong Kong Functional Medical Testing Center, which is closer to an occupational drug testing lab than anything, say, the Olympics might use to analyze an athlete’s blood sample. But for HGH? They simply don’t have the necessary materials, according to Catlin, who is widely regarded as one of the fathers of modern drug testing for his work at the UCLA Olympic Analytical Lab in Los Angeles.

    “The only people who can do HGH testing properly are those who are running WADA labs, and have the reagents supplied by WADA,” Catlin said. “That works. That’s what any sport testing for HGH, that’s legitimate and is useful, will do. But you have to be a WADA-accredited lab to get the reagents. They’re hard to come by.”

    According to Ibarra, a phlebotomist hired by the UFC took a blood sample from Le mere minutes after he’d exited the cage. That in itself is problematic since HGH levels fluctuate, with some research suggesting that HGH levels might “increase tenfold during prolonged moderate exercise,” according to the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

    “The level that Cung tested was high, but it was high for a resting level,” Ibarra said

  7. #37
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    The plot thickens

    If the test was a false positive, the question then becomes 'why?' Who wants Cung DQed in this way? I'm rooting for Cung of course, as he is a personal friend. I haven't spoken to him on this matter yet however.

    Top scientist says to ignore Cung Le's HGH test result
    By Bloody Elbow on Oct 8 2014, 3:36p

    Victor Fraile
    While many fans and media didn't think twice about Cung Le's drug test failure for elevated HGH levels, some drug testing experts are weighing in on issues in the UFC's testing methodology.

    This is a guest article by Gabriel Montoya. You can follow him on Twitter at @Gabriel_Montoya.

    MMA fighter Cung Le was suspended for one year by the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) last week for elevated Human Growth Hormone (HGH) levels found in a blood sample collected immediately following his August 23 TKO loss to Michael Bisping. Le's suspension was initially for nine months but the UFC revised their suspension and extended it to a year, citing an error on their part. That suspension appears to be one in a series of errors made by the UFC regarding Le and his test results. Mounting scientific evidence suggests a myriad of mistakes made by the lab as well as the UFC. The Hong Kong lab used to conduct the hGH test, the sample collection procedure and the actual test results used to determine the "elevated levels of hGH" have some of the top anti*-doping experts puzzled.

    One of the world’s most renowned sports doping scientists and the former chairman of the Australian Sports Anti*Doping Authority, both responded to the test results with outright skepticism. One of them even flat out said he'd ignore the test results.

    There are currently two different tests being used by the World Anti* Doping Agency (WADA) to detect hGH use. The hGH "Isoform Differential Immunoassays" test is used to determine the presence of exogenous (meaning from an outside source) hGH in the system. That test is used in conjunction with a test for serum IGF*1 levels.

    The other hGH test is known as the Biomarker test. According to the Hong Kong lab report reviewed by this reporter, none of these sports doping hGH tests were conducted on Cung Le's blood sample.

    Instead, the Hong Kong lab took a reading of Le's total hGH concentration, which by itself cannot determine if the subject has used exogenous hGH or not.

    ***YOU CAN READ THE FULL REPORT IN PDF FORM HERE.***

    For a male who has fasted and rested for 12 hours prior to giving a blood sample to be tested, [proper protocol], the normal range is 0*5 ng/mL. For an athlete giving a sample after strenuous activity such as a fight, the expected range is 20*30 ng/mL. Le's reading was a bit below 20 ng/mL, which is actually lower than the expected post*-exercise reference range.

    Dr. Don Catlin is considered to be one of the foremost experts on performance enhancing drug testing in sports. He oversaw the opening and operation of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Testing Lab for over 20 years. For the past several years, Dr. Catlin has been developing a new hGH test with his own research team.

    "If it was not the isoform test I would ignore [Cung Le's test] results," Dr. Catlin told this reporter.

    As it turns out, the fact that Le's sample were not tested using the Isoform, IGF*1 or Biomarker tests is just one in a series of testing gaffes.

    On the night of August 23, 2014, Cung le and Michael Bisping fought on a card "self*-regulated" and promoted by the UFC in Macau, China. Le, 42, suffered severe injuries in his TKO loss to Bisping. Cut over the eyes, Le told this reporter late Sunday night that he also suffered a broken bone inside his eye socket.

    According to a statement released Monday to MMAJunkie.com by UFC Vice President of Regulatory Affairs Marc Ratner "a phlebotomist hired from the Mayo Clinic collected blood samples from both fighters. The blood samples were shipped to the Hong Kong Functional Medicine Testing Center for analysis." According to Le, the sample collector took two vials of blood from him after a couple unsuccessful tries and then shipped it off to the lab in Hong Kong which is not WADA* accredited. What does that mean? It means that the Hong Kong lab would not be able to perform the Isoform or Biomarker hGH tests which WADA considers to be essential to determining a positive hGH test.

    "At this time hGH testing can only be reliably tested in a WADA lab with the appropriate reagents [meaning: chemicals]," said Dr. Catlin.

    Richard Ings, the Chairman of the Australian Sports Anti*Doping Authority from 2005 to 2010, weighed in. "Only WADA accredited labs are authorized to perform anti*-doping analysis to WADA standards," he said. "There are 34 to choose from at last count, I believe."

    Why the UFC decided to use a non*-WADA lab in Hong Kong when a WADA lab was available three hours away in Beijing, China remains a mystery. It is also unknown whether the "phlebotomist" hired by the UFC is a member of a WADA *approved doping control entity.

    To compound matters, Le was given his results by the UFC after they received them from the Hong Kong lab. However, neither the lab or the UFC bothered to translate them from Chinese into English. Mr. Le is Vietnamese.

    "We had to use 'Google translate' in order to read the results," said Gary Ibarra, Le's manager.

    Once Le and Ibarra were informed of the lab’s findings, they asked that the B sample be tested. It is standard sports drug testing procedure for samples collected to be divided into an "A Sample" and a "B sample." The UFC informed Le that the B sample had been thrown out by the lab, destroying any chance of a science*-based appeal.

    "Every sample requires an A and a B analysis," said Ings. "The B sample is the confirmation test of the A sample analysis. No B sample means no ADRV (Anti*-Doping Rules Violation) is possible."

    As for the "elevated hGH levels" finding of the Hong Kong lab, Ings said "[This case] would never stand up at appeal at CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport)." CAS, which is considered the supreme court of sport’s doping, is the third party venue used when an athlete wishes to challenge a positive test result.

    Unfortunately for Le, CAS is not an option in this case. The UFC, when holding events outside the United States, is a self-*regulated organization. They determine how and when to test as well as what the punishment will be.

    "Who would we appeal to?" replied Ibarra when asked when Le’s hearing would be to challenge the positive test result. "Dana White? Lorenzo Fertitta?"

    On Monday, the UFC, via Ratner's statement, stood by their decision to suspend Le. At press time, the UFC did not answer questions posed by this reporter. Rather, they passed them along "for review should we be interested in participating in your story."

    "The UFC is the judge, jury and executioner," said Le, who rightfully feels he is entitled to due process.
    Gene Ching
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  8. #38
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    Under the circumstances the UFC should give him the benefit of the doubt.
    That said, does it matter anymore in terms of his fighting career?
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  9. #39
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    It totally matters....

    It matters to his legacy.

    UFC will allow Cung Le to appeal drug suspension -- and it's the right move
    Marc Raimondi
    FOX Sports
    OCT 08, 2014 10:14p ET


    Victor Fraile / Getty Images AsiaPac

    Cung Le, suspended a year by the UFC for testing positive for HGH, will at least get the chance for an arbitrator to hear his case.

    Cung Le is getting major backlash from his failed drug test and, maintaining his innocence, he believes things have gotten out of control.

    "People are going on my son's Instagram and telling him I'm a cheater," Le told FOX Sports. "I don't think the UFC understands what they've done."

    Well, the MMA veteran got good news Wednesday. He'll rightly get a chance to clear his name.

    UFC president Dana White told ESPN.com that Le will be able to appeal his year-long suspension handed down when he tested positive for HGH following a loss to Michael Bisping on Aug. 23 in Macao.

    Le's manager Gary Ibarra told FOX Sports that he has not heard from the UFC about an official appeals process, but plans to follow up right away upon learning of White's comments. The appeal would be overseen by a third-party arbitrator, UFC COO Lawrence Epstein told ESPN.

    “People are going on my son's Instagram and telling him I'm a cheater. I don't think the UFC understands what they've done.”
    -Cung Le


    "We're very happy that Cung is going to have the right to defend himself," Ibarra said.

    And he should. If Le, 42, fought Bisping and then tested positive in Las Vegas, he would absolutely get a date in front of the Nevada Athletic Commission (NAC) to tell his story, which is honestly rather compelling. In this case, the UFC regulated the Macao card itself. That's a conflict of interest for sure (though hard to avoid in regions without governing bodies), but it doesn't mean Le should not have due process.

    Le's argument in front of the arbitrator will be multiple-fold. First, the lab the UFC used to test the samples, the Hong Kong Functional Medical Testing Center, was not certified by the World Anti-Doping Association (WADA), considered the top of the food chain as far as HGH testing goes. White told ESPN that a WADA accredited lab was not used in this case, because this was an unprecedented decision by the organization and happened at the 11th hour. Previously, the UFC had only ordered urine tests on athletes on fight night. White said the UFC will never authorize a non-WADA certified lab to perform blood tests again.

    Don Catlin, an expert on testing who oversaw the operation of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Testing Lab for more than 20 years, told Bloody Elbow's Gabriel Montoya that Le's test results should be "ignored" if the proper WADA procedures were not used. There is also a British Journal of Sports Medicine study that says growth hormone production in the body can increase during strenuous activity. Le's blood was taken after his fourth-round TKO loss to Bisping.

    "There are several issues -- the laboratory chosen to do the testing, the manner in which the testing was performed," Ibarra said. "The sample was collected post-fight, which is a huge mistake. It's pretty simple. All the questions that we raised in the public eye were raised in the public eye, because at that time that was the only thing we could do."

    Not anymore. Le will get the opportunity to present his version of events and evidence. It's the only way to do it, regardless if you believe him or not. Le's physique was impressive prior to the fight with Bisping -- it was the best he has ever looked -- and the suspicion is what led the UFC to demand the testing in the first place.

    But the eye test won't matter to an independent arbitrator. The facts will. And, at this stage, that's all Le can really hope for.

    "I'm ready for a hearing," Le said.

    He deserves that much.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  10. #40
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    Sure, I agree that in regards to his legacy because of the whole silly "cheater stigma" the haters try to pin on pro athletes.

    What I mean is that, regardless, his fight career is over.


    I do have top say this:
    Even if he gets cleared I personally believe that he did use HGH or use something to get his HGH levels up there.
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  11. #41
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    paper thin skin prolly means he used something

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  12. #42
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    Suspension recinded

    Thank goodness. I'm still pondering why they would test the loser after the fight. What's the point of that anyway?

    UFC Rescinds Suspension of Cung Le
    October 21, 2014

    At UFC Fight Night Macao on August 23rd, UFC contracted with an independent drug testing laboratory in Hong Kong to perform urinalysis testing on all fighters on the card. Additionally, UFC requested the laboratory to test blood samples from 4 fighters for human growth hormone (HGH), erythropoietin (EPO) and testosterone.

    One of the athletes who had his blood tested was Cung Le. The laboratory results from Le’s blood test were sent to the UFC and showed that his blood had a total HGH level outside the reference range. Based on such results, UFC officials determined that Le had violated his promotional agreement and the UFC Fighter Conduct Policy. Consequently, UFC decided that Le should be suspended from unarmed combat competition for 12 months.

    Following the announcement of Le’s suspension, UFC officials have been provided with medical advice regarding the elevated total HGH present in Le’s system. In accordance with such medical advice, UFC has determined that Le’s elevated total HGH by itself does not prove that he took performance-enhancing drugs before the August 23rd bout. As a result, UFC has informed Le that his suspension is rescinded.

    Le had requested an appeal of his suspension, and was entitled to arbitrate the drug test results and suspension. However, based on the lack of conclusive laboratory results, UFC officials deemed it appropriate to immediately rescind the suspension without the need for further proceedings.

    The UFC organization has always been a leader when it comes to testing for performance-enhancing drugs in combat sports. All UFC athletes know they are subject to drug testing by an applicable state athletic commission, an international governing federation, or by an independent laboratory contracted by the UFC when no regulatory body is overseeing the event. In those cases where regulatory oversight is unavailable, UFC voluntarily chooses to adhere to the highest level of athlete health and safety protocols similar to if the event were being held in the state of Nevada.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Thank goodness. I'm still pondering why they would test the loser after the fight. What's the point of that anyway?
    See, this is the part where people think that someone didn't take PED because they WANT to think that.
    Read this part and understand what they are truly saying:
    In accordance with such medical advice, UFC has determined that Le’s elevated total HGH by itself does not prove that he took performance-enhancing drugs before the August 23rd bout. As a result, UFC has informed Le that his suspension is rescinded.
    The are NOT refuting the test results, they are saying that the tests ALONE don't prove He took PED's.
    Psalms 144:1
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  14. #44
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    The fallout

    UFC executive discusses Cung Le's HGH testing fiasco


    UFC middleweight fighter Cung Le practices Wing Chun during a training session in Hong Kong before his bout against Michael Bisping this summer. (Anthony Kwan / Getty Images)
    By Lance Pugmire

    UFC executive Lawrence Epstein says rescinding suspension of Cung Le is apology enough in bungled HGH test

    The Ultimate Fighting Championship’s bumbling of middleweight fighter Cung Le’s human growth hormone test in China has been an embarrassing misstep for the organization and the cleanup isn’t progressing to the fighter's satisfaction.

    In his first public comments since the UFC rescinded a one-year-long suspension it slapped Le with over a supposed elevated HGH test result earlier this month, Lawrence Epstein, the UFC’s senior executive vice president and chief operating officer, told the Los Angeles Times that overturning Le’s suspension is a sufficient apology to the fighter.

    “I’m not going to sugarcoat this: We’re not happy with how this particular situation played out,” Epstein said. “Once we had information, we rescinded it. That’s appropriate under the circumstances. We said it all by rescinding the suspension. I feel like what we did is an adequate remedy.”

    Le found out in the days before his Aug. 23 fight in Macao that his main-event opponent, England's Michael Bisping, had seen a photo of a very muscular Le in training camp and requested complete drug testing. Le suffered a broken eye bone in the bout, and was cut on the face during a fourth-round technical knockout loss to Bisping.

    The UFC hired a company to conduct the tests of all fighters on the card, Epstein said, and included additional blood tests for Le, Bisping and a few others.

    The results were not sent to the World Anti-Doping Agency-accredited lab in China, however, and when testers in Hong Kong reported elevated HGH in Le’s system, the UFC disciplined the fighter.

    Soon after, several critics, including former Olympic anti-doping chief Don Catlin, criticized the procedure and the lab as Le and his supporters argued that taking a blood sample immediately after heavy exertion and stress can produce higher levels of naturally occurring HGH.

    Catlin said the result should be “ignored.”

    In a press release Monday, the UFC then rescinded the suspension, but declined to reveal what medical experts were consulted, and Epstein declined in a Wednesday interview with The Times to point out who provided the advice.

    “[The experts] all concluded that though the tests did show elevated levels of HGH, the test that was administered was not conclusive [to say] that those were not the result of exogenous HGH,” Epstein said.

    So why weren’t these same experts consulted before Le was suspended?

    “We were in China, using a lab where they analyze the blood locally, so we went to the only facility that was in the area that could do this,” Epstein said. “We told them what we wanted them to test for. They conducted the test. The test was done properly, but not done to conclusively prove the elevated levels were exogenous.

    “There was nothing wrong with the test. It just wasn’t the right test.”

    Le, reached Thursday by telephone, said he hasn’t had a conversation with UFC officials since the suspension was rescinded.

    “They should have consulted those experts before they suspended me,” Le said.

    When Epstein was asked if the UFC could have rooted this out before disciplining Le, he said, “What happened was, we got the test results back, explained to [Le’s] representative that these were above the normal levels, that we were going to suspend him.

    “At that point, there was some discussion about whether or not these tests could properly find elevated levels of something that was taken versus something that naturally occurred. We did additional investigation and received additional information … so we rescinded the suspension.”

    And perhaps irrevocably soiled a fighter’s reputation.

    “I’m not happy about it, but we had to deal with the situations as they’re presented to us,” Epstein said. “ … We assumed the results were valid. It was one of those things. The wrong test was given.”

    He said no one at the UFC has lost their job over the matter.

    Epstein said since earlier this year he has led the UFC push to align with a company like the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that can test fighters, with the ability to impose sanctions on those who test dirty.

    Le’s case, said Epstein, is “another reason we’re looking at some sort of comprehensive testing protocol for all of our athletes conducted by a third party.

    “We are not in the drug testing business. We are in the sports/media/fight promotion business. When we have athletic commissions or federations in place, they do it all. When we have situations like we have in Macao, we have to self-regulate. We do the best we can. Frankly, that’s what I think we did.”

    Epstein said it could take another six months before the UFC can have the third-party testing in place, with state athletic commissions still needing to bless the arrangement that would allow the third party to discipline the athlete.

    Le, meanwhile, still has two fights remaining on his UFC contract, but after this episode and the loss to Bisping, he isn’t sure where he stands.

    “What I read in their press release in lifting my suspension, I don’t feel like that’s an apology at all,” Le said. “There’s no apology. I’m happy they lifted my suspension, but … if you’re wrong, man up.”
    Is the UFC going to try and pretend this all never happened? If you're going to go to the trouble of busting someone, make sure the charges stick.
    Gene Ching
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  15. #45

    Cung Le requests contract release

    Cung Le requests contract release; calls UFC 'something I don't believe in anymore'
    By Dave Doyle for mmafighting.com
    We're more than a month removed from the resolution of Cung Le's drug-test dispute with the UFC, but the bad feelings on the fighter's end of things have yet to subside.

    Le revealed Wednesday that he has told his manager, Gary Ibarra, to request his release from his UFC contract.

    On veteran MMA reporter Josh Gross' "Gross Point Blank" podcast, Le explained that he no longer has it in him to work for Zuffa in the wake of a drug test which was first announced as a failure for human growth hormone, then was rescinded.

    "I'd just prefer not to be part of the UFC anymore," Le told Gross. "I'd prefer not to put the effort into something I don't believe in anymore."

    It was announced that Le had tested positive for elevated levels of human growth hormone following his fourth round TKO loss to Michael Bisping at UFC Fight Night 48 on Aug. 23 in Macau, People's Republic of China. The UFC, which oversees its own drug testing for international events, first announced a nine-month suspension, then upped it to a year.

    After Le requested an appeal of the process, however, the UFC changed course and rescinded the test results and the ban.

    Ibarra, who also appeared on Gross' podcast, says the damage was done, regardless of the result.

    "The consensus prior to this situation was that Cung was that he was an honorable man," Ibarra said. "A family man, a true embodiment of what martial arts is: Respect, honor, he embodied all of those things. And now hii career will ever be tarnished, or forever have something of an asterisk next to it, due to something that is no fault of his own. Does anybody deserve that? No, absolutely not. I would hope the UFC would understand that and recuse themselves from further drug testing when there are no athletic commissions, and leave drug testing in the hands of people who specialize in drug testing so that this doesn't happen again."

    The 42-year old Le, who indicated he has dropped his requested apology from the UFC over the matter, said he hasn't made up his mind on whether he's going to fight again. However, if he does so, he said his choice would be to reunite with Scott Coker, the current Bellator CEO, with whom he has a business relationship dating back to his days as a kickboxer.

    "If I would fight for anyone, it would be Scott Coker," Le said. "I would not fight for the UFC after what happened."

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