Dear mods, why do you allow so much drama here?

[Miguel]

This thread kind of made me want to finally post this...

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ough-is-enough

As someone who rarely posts on these forums, I've gotta agree: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

All you guys do on here is argue. ALL THE TIME. I'm still trying to figure out what the moderators do here, because from where I'm sitting it's always looked like "nothing" with a side of "absolutely nothing," but what I can tell you is that you're alienating pretty much everyone who would prefer to participate in forums where every other thread doesn't devolve into something that looks like a ****ing contest between 12 year olds. Everything is a personal attack, any disagreement has to turn into some drawn-out thread-closing fiasco, and everyone's way is the right way because they said so and anyone who says otherwise is going to hear about how much of a douche they are until the thread gets closed or dies. I honestly don't know how many of you actually train vs just sit online arguing.

There is a community here with a lot of knowledge and a lot to offer, some great debates can be had and they don't have to turn into name-calling and passive aggressive douchebaggery, but mods, for real, you are pretty much flushing all of that good down the toilet by allowing every troll to just run wild. You need to draw some lines and start actually forcing people here into some kind of discipline, crack down on personal attacks like it's your job (it is by the way), because I can tell you, I want to post here, my training partners want to post here, there are a lot of people waiting on the sidelines wanting to participate in this forum who are just appalled at the conditions here. I'm on a lot of random forums, this is the only one I've ever seen that is so free-for-all that it lacks any sense of real community, and that's a shame. Just my 2 cents, I'll go back to not posting now.

[GlennR]

This thread kind of made me want to finally post this...

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ough-is-enough

As someone who rarely posts on these forums, I've gotta agree: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

All you guys do on here is argue. ALL THE TIME. I'm still trying to figure out what the moderators do here, because from where I'm sitting it's always looked like "nothing" with a side of "absolutely nothing," but what I can tell you is that you're alienating pretty much everyone who would prefer to participate in forums where every other thread doesn't devolve into something that looks like a ****ing contest between 12 year olds. Everything is a personal attack, any disagreement has to turn into some drawn-out thread-closing fiasco, and everyone's way is the right way because they said so and anyone who says otherwise is going to hear about how much of a douche they are until the thread gets closed or dies. I honestly don't know how many of you actually train vs just sit online arguing.

There is a community here with a lot of knowledge and a lot to offer, some great debates can be had and they don't have to turn into name-calling and passive aggressive douchebaggery, but mods, for real, you are pretty much flushing all of that good down the toilet by allowing every troll to just run wild. You need to draw some lines and start actually forcing people here into some kind of discipline, crack down on personal attacks like it's your job (it is by the way), because I can tell you, I want to post here, my training partners want to post here, there are a lot of people waiting on the sidelines wanting to participate in this forum who are just appalled at the conditions here. I'm on a lot of random forums, this is the only one I've ever seen that is so free-for-all that it lacks any sense of real community, and that's a shame. Just my 2 cents, I'll go back to not posting now.

Reasonable post until the last line.
So why make the post at all if you are never going to post again?

If its such a bad forum what does that say of the non-posting spectators like yourself?

[anerlich]

I'm not on a witch-hunt here

Oh, yes, you friggin' well are ...

[KPM]

All you guys do on here is argue. ALL THE TIME. I'm still trying to figure out what the moderators do here, because from where I'm sitting it's always looked like "nothing" with a side of "absolutely nothing," but what I can tell you is that you're alienating pretty much everyone who would prefer to participate in forums .

Hi Miguel!

Thanks for your post. You make excellent points. Unfortunately, I think your expectations are too high. Maybe you saw the following thread? Maybe not? But here is what happened when a couple of people tried to suggest a change. And it made absolutely no positive impression on anyone.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...he-Way-Forward

[GlennR]

Hi Miguel!

Thanks for your post. You make excellent points. Unfortunately, I think your expectations are too high. Maybe you saw the following thread? Maybe not? But here is what happened when a couple of people tried to suggest a change. And it made absolutely no positive impression on anyone.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...he-Way-Forward

Oh boo hoo..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

[Paddington]

Oh boo hoo..............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

This guy.....

I tend to agree with the OP.

[Sihing73]

Hello,

Several years ago I tried to moderate on a more involved manner.
I deleted posts and threads where people made attacks on one another and which did nothing to further the art of Wing Chun.

Unfortunately, that is not what the majority of members here wanted.
People seem to enjoy the tension and like to argue rather than, imho, either train or try to exchange ideas and or learn from one another.

As I have said on more than one occasion, this is YOUR forum not mine so I will defer to those who post here and allow them to mold the environment.

I have other things going on so I do not come here as much as I used to. I am reliant on members here to bring things to my attention and when they do so I will act accordingly.

However, this is your forum and until the majority of people desire change I will observe with sadness how childish some can be.

[KPM]

Hello,

However, this is your forum and until the majority of people desire change I will observe with sadness how childish some can be.

You are absolutely right Dave. The majority here that post regularly are not interested in any real change. That became very clear on the thread that I referenced above.

[Miguel]

Hello,

Several years ago I tried to moderate on a more involved manner.
I deleted posts and threads where people made attacks on one another and which did nothing to further the art of Wing Chun.

Unfortunately, that is not what the majority of members here wanted.
People seem to enjoy the tension and like to argue rather than, imho, either train or try to exchange ideas and or learn from one another.

As I have said on more than one occasion, this is YOUR forum not mine so I will defer to those who post here and allow them to mold the environment.

I have other things going on so I do not come here as much as I used to. I am reliant on members here to bring things to my attention and when they do so I will act accordingly.

However, this is your forum and until the majority of people desire change I will observe with sadness how childish some can be.

but isn't that kind of like letting the lunatics run the asylum? I mean, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, the people causing drama prefer drama, and remain a majority because no one wants to be around so much childish bs. They're always going to be the majority, just like 100 people throwing poop at each other in an auditorium are always going to be the majority of people who want to be in that room even though it seats 10,000. It's a false majority. Poop stinks, and no one wants to be around it.

I mean come on look at this thread, the drama here is like a bacteria that can't help but infect everything on this site with petty bs... You can't have a cohesive community that doesn't have a minimum level of expected civility towards one another, otherwise you end up with behavior that wouldn't be tolerated in any level in the real world.

If I can make a suggestion, why don't the ego-driven drama people here just post videos of them interacting with people the same way in public as they do here? That way we can kill two birds with one stone, we'll all get to see if their self-aggrandizing statements about WC translate on video since I've yet to see any troll on here put their online martial arts super-stardom dreams at any risk and say "here's a video of me sparring with a boxer I've never met" (and why the eff would you guys take anyone seriously who wouldn't post that?), and they'll learn some valuable lessons on how interacting with human beings actually works in the real world.

[anerlich]

Hi Miguel!

Thanks for your post. You make excellent points. Unfortunately, I think your expectations are too high. Maybe you saw the following thread? Maybe not? But here is what happened when a couple of people tried to suggest a change. And it made absolutely no positive impression on anyone.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...he-Way-Forward

Since the instigator of that thread was arguably one of the worst recent perpetrators of the behaviour he was complaining about, it is hardly surprising that his requests were derided.

[chousos]

This thread kind of made me want to finally post this...

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ough-is-enough

As someone who rarely posts on these forums, I've gotta agree: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

All you guys do on here is argue. ALL THE TIME. I'm still trying to figure out what the moderators do here, because from where I'm sitting it's always looked like "nothing" with a side of "absolutely nothing," but what I can tell you is that you're alienating pretty much everyone who would prefer to participate in forums where every other thread doesn't devolve into something that looks like a ****ing contest between 12 year olds. Everything is a personal attack, any disagreement has to turn into some drawn-out thread-closing fiasco, and everyone's way is the right way because they said so and anyone who says otherwise is going to hear about how much of a douche they are until the thread gets closed or dies. I honestly don't know how many of you actually train vs just sit online arguing.

There is a community here with a lot of knowledge and a lot to offer, some great debates can be had and they don't have to turn into name-calling and passive aggressive douchebaggery, but mods, for real, you are pretty much flushing all of that good down the toilet by allowing every troll to just run wild. You need to draw some lines and start actually forcing people here into some kind of discipline, crack down on personal attacks like it's your job (it is by the way), because I can tell you, I want to post here, my training partners want to post here, there are a lot of people waiting on the sidelines wanting to participate in this forum who are just appalled at the conditions here. I'm on a lot of random forums, this is the only one I've ever seen that is so free-for-all that it lacks any sense of real community, and that's a shame. Just my 2 cents, I'll go back to not posting now.

Good point!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Or you guys in the WC forum can simply accept the fact that IF were going to moderate this forum like we SHOULD, there would be no WC forum.
WHY?
Simply because YOU guys ALLOW the drama to happen because YOU feed it.
Ignore stupidity and it will cease.
"let him rave so all my know him to be mad"
Get it?
Know, if YOU guys really want a good forum with good solid discussion that is NOT the laughing stock of the rest of the forums, then it falls on YOU to make it so.
Stop giving voice to the wackos and start participating in decent and productive discussions.
If you keep calling out the wackos as wackos THEY will leave.

[KPM]

Or you guys in the WC forum can simply accept the fact that IF were going to moderate this forum like we SHOULD, there would be no WC forum.
WHY?
Simply because YOU guys ALLOW the drama to happen because YOU feed it.
Ignore stupidity and it will cease.
"let him rave so all my know him to be mad"
Get it?
Know, if YOU guys really want a good forum with good solid discussion that is NOT the laughing stock of the rest of the forums, then it falls on YOU to make it so.
Stop giving voice to the wackos and start participating in decent and productive discussions.
If you keep calling out the wackos as wackos THEY will leave.

Good points SR. And this certainly applies to a lot of the recent activity here! But I would also like to point out that there is more to it than just the wackos. Aside from the trolls and wackos, many discussions degenerate and go down the toilet when people started insulting and name-calling each other. Not treating people respectfully as one would in an actual face to face conversation is a significant part of the problem in my opinion.

[LFJ]

Not treating people respectfully as one would in an actual face to face conversation is a significant part of the problem in my opinion.

Let's see if I can take a page out of Twenty's book. If actually getting punched in the face were part of people's training, they most likely wouldn't be talking sh!t online where they wouldn't in person. They'd know better. So just ignore the sh!t talkers and don't get into with them. They're offering nothing anyway.

[SKM]

Getting rid of a forum would be censorship. I personally do not support censorship. Even getting rid of a of a branch of this forum would not stop the bandwidth hogging some people do. The co-option of this forum is done by very few people and they would just go to other threads and hog the bandwidth there also. They could be banned, but that is also a form of censure that I do not support. Talking to a person on this forum the way you would talk to them face to face is the best option. Argument and disagreement can still be civil. The main thing I see with argument on this forum is that it does not come out of personal experience and/or research, but rather from something read or from what somebody else says. That is not all together bad if someone else's statement or research backs up what you have already said, and if you cite them. If you do not cite other research, then you are ripping them off and committing plagiarism, which I see a lot of on this forum. Do you have original ideas, original training you have developed, interesting experiences; met interesting people during your training odyssey? I would personally like to read such things, but for the most part, save for just a few rare instances that gems are given on this forum, it is becoming stagnant. You have run off all of the seniors. They do not want to waste time sharing their wisdom on this forum. Running people off by your own indiscretion is also a form of censorship. Some of you say, "If you cannot take it, leave." What about people who can "take it" and still leave? Talking is not fighting and fighters do not talk very much. Given how much time some of you spend on this forum, I can tell you do not train much, if at all. You have never been in a fight; trained until you drop, or lived a fighter's life. If you are a fighter, your presence would be scarce yet to the point when you do check in. I am spending the time to tell you what I see you doing. I want the seniors to come back. I want to talk to them. This is all I will ever say again regarding this issue.