Pondering

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I was wondering about something and was curious if anyone wanted to give their views or opinions.

What does it say about someone who gets upset with how what they post is perceived, will not answer questions directly and says they are done with everything and leaving. Yet..........................that same person keeps coming back.

Now I am not talking about any ONE particular individual here so do not jump to conclusions.

But, over the years I have seen several people threaten to take their toys and leave to go to another sandbox.....................and yet they keep returning.
This really does have me puzzled and I am wondering if it may be some sort of medical or mental condition.
It also leads me to wonder about what level of skill, if any, they truly have. I mean if you are so thin skinned that an internet forum can get you upset then how do you function in real life. If your Sifu does not promote you or acknowledge your great skill do you stick it out or go elsewhere???

I am kind of bored today and this was something I was wondering about.

Your thoughts..............................

[JPinAZ]

Good question Dave,

One simple answer is: some people crave the attention - good or bad (and some just the bad). And, I think some people really get off and even gain some strange satisfaction on the negative attention and seeing people get riled up over what they've said or done. I have many ideas why they are that way, but would rather leave that part alone.

[Paddington]

Hello,

I was wondering about something and was curious if anyone wanted to give their views or opinions.

What does it say about someone who gets upset with how what they post is perceived, will not answer questions directly and says they are done with everything and leaving. Yet..........................that same person keeps coming back.

Now I am not talking about any ONE particular individual here so do not jump to conclusions.

But, over the years I have seen several people threaten to take their toys and leave to go to another sandbox.....................and yet they keep returning.
This really does have me puzzled and I am wondering if it may be some sort of medical or mental condition.
It also leads me to wonder about what level of skill, if any, they truly have. I mean if you are so thin skinned that an internet forum can get you upset then how do you function in real life. If your Sifu does not promote you or acknowledge your great skill do you stick it out or go elsewhere???

I am kind of bored today and this was something I was wondering about.

Your thoughts..............................

A good post.

I think it is always difficult to spot one's own faults, even when looking in the mirror. Sometimes people become excited by what they perceive to be 'newly discovered' or of great importance to them and it is a mistake to assume that others are going to feel the same way; a 'fetish for the new', if you will, and even if the item is an antique, coming into ownership renders it 'new' to the owner for a while.

I think it is important not to conflate issues, sihing73, and to realise that as Miguel noted, it is a number of people and their conduct that has created a hostile environment here.

It is not just about being thin skinned even though in some cases this is true. It is more like a group of 'bullshido' members / posters intentionally derailing and wrecking havoc on these forums (phrost). I am not saying that that is the case or stating that this is people's intent. Rather, I am saying that the result of people's conduct on these forums results in a similar hostile atmosphere being created here.

[YouKnowWho]

A good friend of mine asked me,

- Why do you spend time on internet discussion?
- What can you do when someone said something bad about you?

The answer to the 1st question is easy. You want to find people who can share the same interest and talk about TCMA with you. The answer to the 2nd question is not that easy.

[Wayfaring]

Perhaps it is a little bit of THIS.....

[KPM]

I think it is important not to conflate issues, sihing73, and to realise that as Miguel noted, it is a number of people and their conduct that has created a hostile environment here.

It is not just about being thin skinned even though in some cases this is true. It is more like a group of 'bullshido' members / posters intentionally derailing and wrecking havoc on these forums (phrost). I am not saying that that is the case or stating that this is people's intent. Rather, I am saying that the result of people's conduct on these forums results in a similar hostile atmosphere being created here.

+1. I agree completely.

[Wayfaring]

I think it is important not to conflate issues, sihing73, and to realise that as Miguel noted, it is a number of people and their conduct that has created a hostile environment here.

It is not just about being thin skinned even though in some cases this is true. It is more like a group of 'bullshido' members / posters intentionally derailing and wrecking havoc on these forums (phrost). I am not saying that that is the case or stating that this is people's intent. Rather, I am saying that the result of people's conduct on these forums results in a similar hostile atmosphere being created here.

Actually it is probably your perception of "a number of people and their conduct" that makes this a hostile environment TO YOU. One of my worries about the thin skinned and all that is that if people react like this on the internet with all this drama / hostile environment stuff how would they actually react in a challenging real life scenario wherein they may have to use their martial arts training? Would they have a different persona than they portray on the internet? I sure hope so. "I'm sorry mister attacker I really don't want to make this a hostile environment for you. Can't we just talk it out?"

I don't consider this a hostile environment even though Gene just told everyone don't be a ranting clown or you'll get banned. And there have been a lot of people who have treated me in a hostile fashion over years.

I don't think Neal (phrost) posts here from bullshido, or any of the mods over there (actually there was one guy Tom Kagan??? I think but he doesn't post here much any more and doesn't mod much over there any more - funny thing he's more of a traditionalist in his WCK views). I don't post over there but read sometimes - that forum also has a problem with interesting content. There are relatively few investigations going on compared to past and activity is down like it has been here outside of people arguing. To me it's interesting to read their investigations as it provides insight into what fraud looks like represented on the internet.

In reality what is closer to truth is that there has always been some kind of a contingent that posts on this wing chun forum that is a proponent of realistic training and sparring (and the people in that contingent has changed over the past too - not the same people). that contingent holds quite different views than those who train wing chun for more holistic reasons. So the difference in views results in disconnects and at times bickering. But this is true of any group of people anywhere.

The reality for Gene as a publisher is that it's probably to his advantage to keep the drama as increased page views are the result and that helps his magazine sales indirectly. The only thing that would threaten that is accusations of intolerable actions being tolerated like racism or hate speech which might drive clientele away.

[Faux Newbie]

Actually it is probably your perception of "a number of people and their conduct" that makes this a hostile environment TO YOU. One of my worries about the thin skinned and all that is that if people react like this on the internet with all this drama / hostile environment stuff how would they actually react in a challenging real life scenario wherein they may have to use their martial arts training? Would they have a different persona than they portray on the internet? I sure hope so. "I'm sorry mister attacker I really don't want to make this a hostile environment for you. Can't we just talk it out?"

That is a terrible theory. People who argue all day know how to fight, people who don't put up with people who want to argue in space they occupy on a daily basis have conflict management problems?

If I'm going to argue, I will get something done. Flame wars are ineffectual in the extreme. Aside from clicks for Gene, not sure how much effect that has.

[Wayfaring]

That is a terrible theory. People who argue all day know how to fight, people who don't put up with people who want to argue in space they occupy on a daily basis have conflict management problems?

If I'm going to argue, I will get something done. Flame wars are ineffectual in the extreme. Aside from clicks for Gene, not sure how much effect that has.

Nice jump to conclusions there. I don't have a theory. "People who don't put up with people who want to argue in space they occupy on a daily basis"????? Not sure WTF you are talking about there, ace.

There are two sides to a main argument here on realistic training. Those on one side are painted as "people who want to argue"???? Yet on the other side people only seem to want to talk with those with the same view. So they want to "not put up with people who argue", or in other words "lobby to moderators to ban those with opposing views".

So now, which of those sides do you represent?

[KPM]

Actually it is probably your perception of "a number of people and their conduct" that makes this a hostile environment TO YOU. One of my worries about the thin skinned and all that is that if people react like this on the internet with all this drama / hostile environment stuff how would they actually react in a challenging real life scenario wherein they may have to use their martial arts training? Would they have a different persona than they portray on the internet? I sure hope so. "I'm sorry mister attacker I really don't want to make this a hostile environment for you. Can't we just talk it out?"

.

I don't think that's a good analogy or conclusion WF. This is a discussion forum for people with similar interests. Its not too much of a stretch to expect to be treated with some level of politeness and respect, just as we would be in a face to face discussion. When people are rude and disrepectful that discourages others from posting. It has nothing to do with being "thin skinned." It has more to do with being unwilling to put up with BS. And I don't think it has anything to do with how one might respond in a real life scenario to an attacker. If anything, the one's being "hostile" are probably more likely to get into a fight in public vs. the one's that ignore them or try to make efforts to change things around here. Those are the one's more likely to try to avoid or difuse a bad situation. What does your martial arts training tell you to do? Look for a fight? Or try and avoid one?

[Wayfaring]

I don't think that's a good analogy or conclusion WF. This is a discussion forum for people with similar interests. Its not too much of a stretch to expect to be treated with some level of politeness and respect, just as we would be in a face to face discussion. When people are rude and disrepectful that discourages others from posting. It has nothing to do with being "thin skinned." It has more to do with being unwilling to put up with BS. And I don't think it has anything to do with how one might respond in a real life scenario to an attacker. If anything, the one's being "hostile" are probably more likely to get into a fight in public vs. the one's that ignore them or try to make efforts to change things around here. Those are the one's more likely to try to avoid or difuse a bad situation. What does your martial arts training tell you to do? Look for a fight? Or try and avoid one?

But people don't talk on the internet like they do face to face. Even the best of them. And you are a prime example. And so are the mods at times. Those on the other side of the argument from you also feel that they are "unwilling to put up with BS". Your BS is arguing about certain topics. Their BS is endless postulation about technique with zero crucible testing.

So what makes your BS right over theirs? To the point where mods ought to ban those with their view and only keep people with your view?

Sounds fishy to me.

[Faux Newbie]

Nice jump to conclusions there. I don't have a theory.

You suggested posting style and ability in self defense are linked, I was only responding to that. The biggest talkers seem to set up a lot of challenges they then lose, including on mma sites amongst mma guys.

There are two sides to a main argument here on realistic training.

That's one argument on here. Not an important one for either people who train realistically already or don't care to, but apparently we must care, because no matter what thread one is one, these people will drag tangent arguments into it from both sides.

Those on one side are painted as "people who want to argue"???? Yet on the other side people only seem to want to talk with those with the same view.

Which in no way is not your choice or anyone elses. Nor is it a real problem. And, to be clear, I pick on people who want to argue, not just one group. And they do argue to a degree that clearly annoys everyone else, and craps up this forum. You can't possibly believe this forum is not crapped up.

So they want to "not put up with people who argue", or in other words "lobby to moderators to ban those with opposing views".

Ban anyone who follows people around to any thread to carry on specific arguments regardless what the thread is about or what other people on it wish is, to my awareness, the ONLY thing that causes banning on the kung fu taiji forum. I'm fine with that, and it defines exactly what was happening on here. Nor did I call for banning, you will note, I said people should restrain themselves.

Your statement here is a false choice. I repeatedly have suggested arguing with fine, carrying on those arguments across the forum is not. Do you actually not see the difference?

So now, which of those sides do you represent?

This statement is all or nothing thinking. Apparently you are saying that one cannot argue and keep that argument from getting ridiculously out of hand. And those who can do that apparently then cannot do conflict management in real life, or fight if needed to, over those who cannot stop themselves from online argument.

But, if one must choose a side because the people arguing insist on it, I'm on my side. I try to discuss technique, sometimes shoot the ****. I owe you no explanation of my training methods, nor do you owe me the same. I do not need you to weed out the fakes for me, I can decide what methodologies are worthwhile to me by hearing about them, thinking them over, trying them, I really don't need them proselytized to me, and I even less need two groups proselytizing their stuff.

I have largely only argued this point on the threads related to it. So apparently, self restraint can actually be done. This argument that not letting an argument infringe on other's forum time means not allowing argument is totally false.

[Faux Newbie]

But people don't talk on the internet like they do face to face. Even the best of them. And you are a prime example. And so are the mods at times. Those on the other side of the argument from you also feel that they are "unwilling to put up with BS". Your BS is arguing about certain topics. Their BS is endless postulation about technique with zero crucible testing.

So what makes your BS right over theirs? To the point where mods ought to ban those with their view and only keep people with your view?

Sounds fishy to me.

I don't put my BS on threads that don't relate to my BS, they do.

This is what gets a member banned here.

It's not the same, because the issue is what is messing up every thread. And that's a group of people ignoring the thread topics to carry on their arguments, and one or the other of them seemed to have a sense yesterday that reigning it in was necessary, and they sure did, so obviously they can while still arguing on topic most of the time, thus still being able to argue.

[Paddington]

I don't put my BS on threads that don't relate to my BS, they do.

This is what gets a member banned here.

It's not the same, because the issue is what is messing up every thread. And that's a group of people ignoring the thread topics to carry on their arguments, and one or the other of them seemed to have a sense yesterday that reigning it in was necessary, and they sure did, so obviously they can while still arguing on topic most of the time, thus still being able to argue.

One solution to a lot of these issues is to allow the person that started the thread to moderate it. You can set up forum privileges like that. If Gene et al are serious about allowing us to moderate ourselves and affording us the greatest degree of freedom possible, then this is perhaps the best solution.

[Grumblegeezer]

I don't put my BS on threads that don't relate to my BS, they do.

This is what gets a member banned here.

It's not the same, because the issue is what is messing up every thread. And that's a group of people ignoring the thread topics to carry on their arguments, and one or the other of them seemed to have a sense yesterday that reigning it in was necessary, and they sure did, so obviously they can while still arguing on topic most of the time, thus still being able to argue.

Is there a reason why we can't name the culprits? I'm so sick of this thing between Hendrick and Ron & Co. that I could barf. The next time either side follows the other onto a thread dealing with a different topic, their posts should be instantly deleted. Each side has already had their say a dozen times over.

Now they are just messing the forum up. We all need to say STFU and the mods need to delete their off-topic posts. If they persist, yes ban them too!