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Thread: Fujian white crane and wing chun a comparrision

  1. #16
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    Thanks for the reply Ron!

    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    1/. Yes! this has to do also with energetics i. e. forward stepping = positive, backward stepping = negative, right side step = negative, left side step = positive etc. Raising the lead leg as one steps forward activates what we call water ocean and following this up with the rear leg/foot connects energetically to the opposite striking hand.

    1/. Strategy: Taking the opponents center so they have no base of power & counters. Making them "vacate" their positioning. Basic level stuff.
    I was referring more specificly to what the stepping strategy/tactics are to counter the opponent's stepping direction? for example is there a specific formula of where to step in relation to the direction of where the opponent is stepping?

    How does the diagram provide a road map of where to step in relation to where the opponent is stepping in order to counter his movement?


    "In wing chun Sometimes this footwork is referred to Um Ying Baat Gwa Bou, which increases the level of understanding again ( five elements /five form eight directions)"

    What does the "five elements /five form" mean in regards to stepping/footwork in Fuzhou white crane ?
    Last edited by kung fu fighter; 09-22-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  2. #17
    Kf Fighter,

    You are associated with Hendrik right?

    Hendrik has written here on these forums ad-nauseam that he knows White Crane stating it is the "engine / technology" to his Wing Chun.

    So I think it best you consult your Grandmaster Hendrik about White Crane as he likes to given the impression he knows so much (despite never training in the art? Go figure!)

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  3. #18
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    Ron,
    up until now I tried to stay impartial in regards to your feud with Hendrik since we've had some productive discussions in the past.
    I shared what i honestly thought of Hendrik and his Yik Kam wck system after meeting the man in person and experiencing what he speaks about directly.



    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    Kf Fighter,

    You are associated with Hendrik right?
    Yes! and very proud to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    Hendrik has written here on these forums ad-nauseam that he knows White Crane stating it is the "engine / technology" to his Wing Chun.
    Hendrik never stated such things. He merely stated that wing chun contains the DNA signatures of Fujian white Crane and Emei Snake based on his research. He has mentioned snake engine, but I never heard he said White crane is the engine of his wing chun. Are you making this sh!t up to support your feud with him, or just delusional. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    So I think it best you consult your Grandmaster Hendrik about White Crane as he likes to given the impression he knows so much (despite never training in the art? Go figure!)
    Oh Please! Give me a break! what are you 10 years old? this is such childish behavior. "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" nonsense. Grow up!

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter View Post
    Hendrik never stated such things. He merely stated that wing chun contains the DNA signatures of Fujian white Crane and Emei Snake based on his research.
    Fabrication is not research. He has done no research.

    (What are we gonna do? Create two identical threads here?)

  5. #20
    KF Fighter,

    Mate check your tone and manners.

    I never said anything bad about you nor did I resort to the petulant behaviour of calling you names (Delusional etc)

    Are you making this sh!t up to support your feud with him, or just delusional. lol
    What "sh!t" am I supposed to be making up exactly? I have no "feud" with Hendrik but I do regard him as being less than honest, highly evasive in answering ANY questions put to him to the point of purposeful misdirection, repeating everything he thinks ad-nauseam in the misguided hope it will then somehow turn into fact!

    Oh Please! Give me a break! what are you 10 years old? this is such childish behavior. "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" nonsense. Grow up!
    Now who is being childish? Really?

    Show me where I made such a statement! Go ahead, knock yourself out! Show me where I wrote to you "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" ... go on. I won't be holding my breath waiting.


    Hendrik has indeed taught you very well! Very, very well. You have his misdirection down 100% Congratulations!

    I and numerous others on this forum have asked very straight forward up-front and easy to answer (if one is being honest that is) questions of Hendrik only to be met with "Gobbley Gook" or no answer at all as if he sits on high above everyone else here.

    I have seen your Grandmaster Hendrik deride others for their opinions yet never once saw you "jump in to say it was wrong of him to deride others". Not once have you said Hendrik that's simply un-called for. Sorry buddy but your extreme bias is showing and it lets you down on all counts as being a singularly one-sided individual unable to see the forest for the trees!

    If you go back over the millions and millions of posts here you would have seen that at one point I actually did support Hendrik in his right to express his views that was until he refused to answer even the most basic of questions!

    I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be. That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art. At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.

    Your Grandmaster Hendrik talks as if he is White Crane and has the right to speak for the art yet will not qualify if he has actually had any even the most basic of training in this art. I mean it's not that hard of a question.

    He then attributes quotes to a Master of White Crane that were proven to have never had been made! In brief he lied! Yet I am now supposed to believe his word here? If you wish to follow the words and way of a proven liar great. More power to you. Its not for me.

    As you are springing strongly to his defence then I'll ask you the questions Hendrik and his disciple Jim refuses to answer:

    1/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

    2/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

    3/. Has Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

    4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?

    5/. If you feel Hendrik has the answers you seek why ask me about White Crane?


    Now old mate, these are not exactly hard questions to answer are they?

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post

    Hendrik has written here on these forums ad-nauseam that he knows White Crane stating it is the "engine / technology" to his Wing Chun.

    So I think it best you consult your Grandmaster Hendrik about White Crane as he likes to given the impression he knows so much (despite never training in the art? Go figure!)


    1. I state my case on wing chun kuen has white crane and emei DNA here. I am a wcner . Not a grandmaster and care less to be one, or don't want to be one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



    2. I am not a grandmaster and don't want to be one.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 09-23-2014 at 07:27 AM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Fabrication is not research. He has done no research.

    (What are we gonna do? Create two identical threads here?)



    I have shared the following to the wcners and public.


    Wing chun Jin type based on white crane and emei DNA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



    Wing Chun snap short since 1848
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JqSJQaULAI -






    However, I don't expect a Song Shan Shao Lin modern Wu Shu guy to understand what I am talking about.

  8. #23
    Ron,


    Beside you are not a wcner, keep asking stupid questions, what have you contribute?



    I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be.

    That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art.

    At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.


    I have heard from Australia karate community that you get your black belt by paying some fake grandmaster who is a taxi driver in japan or Okinawa. Is that true? That is the reason why you care so much on title such as Grandmaster?

    I state my case on wing chun kuen has white crane and emei DNA technically in public. I am a wcner . Not a grandmaster and care less to be one, or don't want to be one.

    Just face it, you are clueless on WCK.






    Go watch these videos I share and ask sensible question. Otherwise, I take you not capable of communication

    http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...22#post1276822




    Hendrik has indeed taught you very well! Very, very well. You have his misdirection down 100% Congratulations!

    Sure,

    Like Sergio and many other wcners,
    kungfu fighter have the force flow handling skill you don't have, this can be easily observe in all of your videos. You are a body type power generation guy Clueless on force flow handling but keep thinking you know it all.

    It is very obvious that your so called Wck properly exposed are just what you like to think.




    4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?


    You really think if I don't know my stuffs I can bulsh!t Kungfu fighter and Mike who are known Wck sifus in their martial art community when we met,

    Be able to exchanging experience on different scenario and pro and con of counter attack, momentum,.. Kyokushin round kicks, mma take down......ect LoL ?


    You Ron is just a guy projecting your own self thinking others is like you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    KF Fighter,

    Mate check your tone and manners.

    I never said anything bad about you nor did I resort to the petulant behaviour of calling you names (Delusional etc)



    What "sh!t" am I supposed to be making up exactly? I have no "feud" with Hendrik but I do regard him as being less than honest, highly evasive in answering ANY questions put to him to the point of purposeful misdirection, repeating everything he thinks ad-nauseam in the misguided hope it will then somehow turn into fact!



    Now who is being childish? Really?

    Show me where I made such a statement! Go ahead, knock yourself out! Show me where I wrote to you "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" ... go on. I won't be holding my breath waiting.


    Hendrik has indeed taught you very well! Very, very well. You have his misdirection down 100% Congratulations!

    I and numerous others on this forum have asked very straight forward up-front and easy to answer (if one is being honest that is) questions of Hendrik only to be met with "Gobbley Gook" or no answer at all as if he sits on high above everyone else here.

    I have seen your Grandmaster Hendrik deride others for their opinions yet never once saw you "jump in to say it was wrong of him to deride others". Not once have you said Hendrik that's simply un-called for. Sorry buddy but your extreme bias is showing and it lets you down on all counts as being a singularly one-sided individual unable to see the forest for the trees!

    If you go back over the millions and millions of posts here you would have seen that at one point I actually did support Hendrik in his right to express his views that was until he refused to answer even the most basic of questions!

    I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be. That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art. At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.

    Your Grandmaster Hendrik talks as if he is White Crane and has the right to speak for the art yet will not qualify if he has actually had any even the most basic of training in this art. I mean it's not that hard of a question.

    He then attributes quotes to a Master of White Crane that were proven to have never had been made! In brief he lied! Yet I am now supposed to believe his word here? If you wish to follow the words and way of a proven liar great. More power to you. Its not for me.

    As you are springing strongly to his defence then I'll ask you the questions Hendrik and his disciple Jim refuses to answer:

    1/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

    2/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

    3/. Has Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

    4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?

    5/. If you feel Hendrik has the answers you seek why ask me about White Crane?


    Now old mate, these are not exactly hard questions to answer are they?
    Last edited by Hendrik; 09-23-2014 at 07:54 AM.

  9. #24
    Ron,


    I have state my case technically in these video on white crane and emei.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



    Go a head, get your white crane grandmasters or wing chun grandmasters around the world, Hong Kong or china or Singapore.....etc all included, Ask them to proof me wrong technically with a utube response. Stating their case in details and evidence as I have in the utube.

    I love to learn from them certainly.



    LFJ,

    Go a head, get your song Shan shao Lin monks to make a utube as above. I am waiting. Talk is cheap. State your case in utube in open public.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Ron,


    I have state my case technically in these video on white crane and emei.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



    Go a head, get your white crane grandmasters or wing chun grandmasters around the world, Hong Kong or china or Singapore.....etc all included, Ask them to proof me wrong technically with a utube response. Stating their case in details and evidence as I have in the utube.

    I love to learn from them certainly.



    LFJ,

    Go a head, get your song Shan shao Lin monks to make a utube as above. I am waiting. Talk is cheap. State your case in utube in open public.

    Talk is cheap!!!!! LOL!!!!

    Now I can remember all the challenges where people meet up and "the hands do the talking" or whatever form of fighting each other / sparring is carried out. This however seems to be a throwdown of a different genus altogether. Somewhat akin to a boy band dance off, a rap "battle", or Wilmer Valderrama's short-lived reality show "Yo Mama", each participant "posts up" their YouTube video. State ur case, suckas!!!!! Next us, as the "open public" I suppose are going to need to either hold up score cards (2.5 - I fell asleep), or maybe we can bring back the ApplauseMeter from Casey Cason's Top 40 to see who really got the moves, got the logic, got it all?????!!!!

    My only concern is what do we call this event? The "Wing Chun Rumble in the YouTube Jungle 2014" ????


  11. #26
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    Talk is cheap. State your case in utube in open public.
    "Talk is cheap. State your case..."???

    Talk is cheap indeed! You've already stated your case. Now demonstrate that your "technology" works under pressure already, or stop spamming.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    KF Fighter,

    Mate check your tone and manners.

    I never said anything bad about you nor did I resort to the petulant behaviour of calling you names (Delusional etc)
    Ok, fair enough! my bad, But what you were saying is untrue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    What "sh!t" am I supposed to be making up exactly? I have no "feud" with Hendrik but I do regard him as being less than honest, highly evasive in answering ANY questions put to him to the point of purposeful misdirection, repeating everything he thinks ad-nauseam in the misguided hope it will then somehow turn into fact! I and numerous others on this forum have asked very straight forward up-front and easy to answer (if one is being honest that is) questions of Hendrik only to be met with "Gobbley Gook" or no answer at all as if he sits on high above everyone else here.

    If you go back over the millions and millions of posts here you would have seen that at one point I actually did support Hendrik in his right to express his views that was until he refused to answer even the most basic of questions!
    I can understand Your frustration about Hendrik's style of answering questions. However, the things He speaks about cannot be explained in a forum, you have to touch hands and feel them one on one. your other Questions are very accusatory in nature and if I was Hendrik I would not answer them either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    Show me where I made such a statement! Go ahead, knock yourself out! Show me where I wrote to you "I won't be your friend if you are his friend" ... go on. I won't be holding my breath waiting.
    You didn't wrote those words, but it was implied by your tone and refusal to reciprocate answering my question to you after I answered all your questions. In fact now that I think about it, I still continue to answer your additional questions in this post even though you refuse to answer my questions on this thread. http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...05#post1276805



    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    I am down on Hendrik because he try's to tell me someone who has actually done both Wing Chun and White Crane what the arts should be. That is self-aggrandizement on the highest of levels and totally disrespectful to someone who has spent a large proportion of their lives in the pursuit of this art. At least I come from a perspective that is educated in that I have been properly exposed to both sides and arts within the argument he puts forward by actually making an attempt to at least explore the arts in mention.
    Ok, but did you study or research the Emei Snake art. If you did and still came to the same conclusion with DNA signatures evidence then i would say you have a point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    As you are springing strongly to his defence then I'll ask you the questions Hendrik and his disciple Jim refuses to answer:

    1/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

    2/. Has Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

    3/. Has Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)

    4/. Have you ever seen Hendrik spar using his Wing Chun (not a game of "pitty-pat" but real sparring!)?

    5/. If you feel Hendrik has the answers you seek why ask me about White Crane?


    Now old mate, these are not exactly hard questions to answer are they?
    Sorry Mate! i will not answer any more of your questions since you refuse to reciprocate. Why don't you go ask your grandmaster these questions. lol

  13. #28
    But what you were saying is untrue.
    Ha! What about the outright lies I caught Hendrik out on in this very forum? What "excuses" do you make for that?

    I can understand Your frustration about Hendrik's style of answering questions. However, the things He speaks about cannot be explained in a forum, you have to touch hands and feel them one on one. your other Questions are very accusatory in nature and if I was Hendrik I would not answer them either.
    The things he speaks of cannot be explained in a forum? how terribly convenient! if they cannot be explained in a Forum then why in the Blue Hell does he continue to post away over, and over and over again?

    My questions are accusatory in nature. No there not they are straight up and very simple questions that anyone should be able to answer openly honestly n easily.

    Ok, but did you study or research the Emei Snake art. If you did and still came to the same conclusion with DNA signatures evidence then i would say you have a point.
    Where did I ever state that I had ever studied Emei Snake Art??? i never did at least I'm honest enough to say so when asked. more smoke and diversionaray tactics rather than answering plain an simple question! Hendrik has taught you well!

    So now you are agreeing with me that Hendrik ha not ever studied White Crane in any of its various forms?

    Please KF Fighter enlighten me as to when and with whom Hendrik actually studied white crane with thus making him qualified to talk on that arts behalf as he does all too often here in the pages of this forum? I'm betting you won't answer and will try diverting away from offering straight up honest answer!

    Sorry Mate! i will not answer any more of your questions since you refuse to reciprocate. Why don't you go ask your grandmaster these questions. lol
    See now you resort to being simply childish. Really?

    Lastly old buddy. When you stop acting like a ar$ehole maybe then I will give you an answer although I have no doubt my answer would be lost on you (and our Grandmaster Hendrik who is most likely "fishing for info") as neither of you have any real experience of White Crane!

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post



    Where did I ever state that I had ever studied Emei Snake Art??? i never did at least I'm honest enough to say so when asked. more smoke and diversionaray tactics rather than answering plain an simple question! Hendrik has taught you well!

    So now you are agreeing with me that Hendrik ha not ever studied White Crane in any of its various forms?

    Please KF Fighter enlighten me as to when and with whom Hendrik actually studied white crane with thus making him qualified to talk on that arts behalf as he does all too often here in the pages of this forum? I'm betting you won't answer and will try diverting away from offering straight up honest answer!



    Straight honest answer is as the following. However you will not like it and not be able to take it


    I am coaching Kungfu fighter similar to many wcners on the snake engine and force flow handling, using exactly what I share in these videos with much more details.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhmAUXfGET0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5hYQwrQJ0E



    All of these material are from WCK SNT without any other add in. GM Fu had recognized the emei part of elements within the SNT. The fujian white Crane part of SNT is the common denominator of fujian crane as in the above video. As it, it is Wck.



    Plain and simple answer is kungfu fighter has a good basic handling on it now. He knows and can do what he is talking about , but you don't what it is and keep speculate asking qualification....Etc.


    It is a very simple issue, find out what it is before blindly jump gun to against and try to disprove with speculation, qualification....etc

    That is the issue.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 09-24-2014 at 12:18 PM.

  15. #30
    Hendrik, earlier you posted a quite pointed accusation in my direction questioning my integrity and my right to White Crane.

    So to answer your attempt at defaming me I attach below just a handful of my relevant qualifications.

    I have nothing to hide Hendrik.

    Can you now post your own so that we can all know you are a person of honour with nothing to hide?

    Name:  certs row.jpg
Views: 778
Size:  94.1 KB

    Here are some of mine now lets see yours!!!

    Grandmaster Hendrik wrote:

    Beside you are not a wcner, keep asking stupid questions, what have you contribute?
    Be careful what you wish for!

    As for my Wing Chun.I have never trained in Wing Chun? Are you so sure? Okay Grandmaster Hendrik, oh wise and all seeing one let me enlighten you ... I will answer you directly and honestly:

    I actually originally trained in Wing Chun with my initial Instructor being one Guy Burton. I did this training in the Northern territory of Australia. This training was for a one and a half year period.

    In my home town of Wellington I trained with Sifu David Parkes, himself a student of Sifu Jim Fung. (photo's can be supplied as proof)

    I have trained more recently with Sifu Trey Woodford and have been certified in the techniques of the Ip Man, Sum Nung, Yuen Kay Shan lineages with the Certification issued 15th November 2013.

    So Grandmaster Hendrik. I have ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS and wrongful and Defaming Accusations here in plain "black & white" .

    Unlike you, I have nothing to hide and I unlike you do not need some lackey's (KF Fighter & Jim etc) to answer for me.

    So Grandmaster Hendrik having fully answered your questions / accusations please answer my questions as outlined below:

    1/. Have you Grandmaster Hendrik ever actually trained in White Crane and with whom for how long? (not that hard to answer!)

    2/. Have you Grandmster Hendrik ever actually trained in Emei and with whom for how long? (Not that hard to answer!)

    3/. Have you Grandmaster Hendrik physically met and trained with Sergio? (Not that hard to answer!)


    Three questions.

    * The first one can be answered with a yes or no and whom and how long. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

    * The second one can be answered with a yes or no and whom and how long. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

    * The third one can be answered with a yes or no. Pretty simple and very, very easy to answer!

    Even one such a you should be able to answer these three simple questions!

    Or will you avoid giving honest an factual answers like you have all along here?
    Last edited by Minghequan; 09-25-2014 at 03:22 AM.

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

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