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Thread: Fujian white crane and wing chun a comparrision

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  1. #1
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    Fujian white crane and wing chun a comparrision

    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    I can't speak for Wing Chun but in White Crane we have been told that "all kicks are within the arms" meaning that the kicks themselves are not extended too far beyond the arms reach.
    Attachment 8705

    We also do our kicks at a 45 degree angle without full extension of the leg and without aligning the standing foot, hip knee and kicking foot in a line like you may see in Karate or Taekwondo.

    Attachment 8704

    Nice Post Ron,
    This is also in line with how I was taught to kick in wing chun. I started this thread with the intention that this would be a great opportunity to start up a discussion on a comparision of wing chun and white crane concepts and principles.

    Some topics of discussion could include The fujian white crane Bagua concept, or strategies of stepping ( chart with a code for actual strategies) mui fa baat gwa (plum blossom eight trigrams) http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/559/dlzq.jpg.

    The diagonal angles (Four Horizontal golden points) and minor blocks. (up, down , left and right. The bagua strategies of kicking and hand bridge work.

    lien wan kao da (continuous capture hit)

    Fujian white crane principle of going to the forth door
    Last edited by kung fu fighter; 06-15-2014 at 08:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Really pushed for time at the moment as I'm pushing myself to get my final draft of my book/syllabus finished within the next two weeks so my answers and input (For now) will be brief!

    I will address an number of the areas you have raised soon but for right now my focus is on my writing. I will try to pop back later today and add something to the discussion.

    How is this for a starter:

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    This is the 梅花 柱子 Plum Blossom Pillars Illustration as used in our White crane and you can clearly see the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Minghequan; 06-15-2014 at 11:45 PM.

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    Really pushed for time at the moment as I'm pushing myself to get my final draft of my book/syllabus finished within the next two weeks so my answers and input (For now) will be brief!

    I will address an number of the areas you have raised soon but for right now my focus is on my writing. I will try to pop back later today and add something to the discussion.

    How is this for a starter:

    Name:  Picture5.jpg
Views: 3802
Size:  57.4 KB

    This is the 梅花 柱子 Plum Blossom Pillars Illustration as used in our White crane and you can clearly see the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions.
    thanks for the reply,
    Perhaps you can explain what the arrows mean on the outside?

  4. #4
    Differing Directions (circular) in relation to the opponent using the front, side, back and other angles.

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  5. #5

    Some more on White Crane

    Some more on White Crane

    “IRON SAND / CRANE PALM”

    Within the White Crane Gongfu art this Hand Form is used more than any other. It is a Signature Characteristic of the style on an internal level. The Wu Bei Zhi states that one point for this attack is the “Fengchi” (Pool of Wind) Point struck in and downward on the nerve sending the energy down to the way the nerve itself has exited the body following this neural pathway. The strike can also be delivered upward & in towards the skull at a 45 degree angle causing loss of motor function & consciousness by directly attacking the Lesser Occipital Nerve.

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    The Iron Sand Palm uses a special Exploding transference of energetics into the desired target via the palm. Quickly splaying or extending the fingers causes the palm to generate an expansive energy upon impact resulting in a shock wave. Much like hitting water in a container causing a strong vibrational ripple effect!

    Name:  PALM2.jpg
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    The fingers are depicted as being “pulled” or “held” backwards …extended if you will, allowing the upper and lower palm areas to be extended forward into the strike. This teaches the initiated White Crane Gongfu practitioner that the Palm is “exploded” forward via the stretching or splaying of the fingers. This is one of the true Secrets of White Crane Gongfu and Dim Mak or Pressure Point / Blood Gate Striking …. Short, sharp, natural kinetic energy transfer ~ the Hallmark of true Original White Crane Gongfu! The palm “Explodes” onto the point and a slight “Twist” or tweaking action should also be used to transfer the kinetic energy into the area being struck.

    The “Tianzhu” (Heavenly Pillar) point (Greater Occipital Nerve) can also be struck producing a similar response. As can the “Heavenly Window” – Tianchuang which is described as being a “Window of the Sky” point as it disrupts the opponents “Shen” or “Spirit” ….. one of the more deadly points of the Wu Bei Zhi’s dusty pages.

    “Yinfeng” known as the “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Screen” point is a major point to be struck with this Hand Form.

    Mentioned in the Wu Bei Zhi’s “Diagram of the Bronze Statue” 36 Points are listed. Amongst those points is the aforementioned “Yinfeng”. Here a secret is revealed ….. the name “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Field” relates to that of the Qi and the protection of same (Life Energy) so an attack here will be fatal.

    It effects both the great auricularnerve and branches of the facial nerve.In terms of Traditional Chinese Medicine it is the intersection of the Triple Warmer and Gall Bladder Meridian with The Triple warmer being associated with the Fire Element and the Gall Bladder, the Wood element. Of course these are but a few of the areas that can be struck with this hand form.

    Name:  Iron Sand Palm.jpg
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Size:  20.8 KB

    This strike is used to attack the Sishencong points made up of four main points on the top of the head as well as the Baihui Point in the Centre. A strike can also be delivered with great effect to Yangbai (“Yang White”). One can clearly see the difference in the energetics of the Palms shown. The palm itself has transferred from a Yin to Yang state of energetics overloading the opponent’s body in term of the energetics. Yin Strikes will cause the opponents body to fold in and down while a Yang attack will cause the opponents body to open, lifting the feet off the floor in a less controlled fall and more volatile action. That used in the strike has the fingers splayed and the palm “pads” projected forwards adding kinetic percussive energy into the strike as per the illustration of the Iron Sand Fan Palm as seen within the Wu Bei Zhi

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  6. #6
    Hey KF-Fighter (and others)

    You wanted some points for discussion so I have put this out there, no response?

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    Differing Directions (circular) in relation to the opponent using the front, side, back and other angles.
    Thanks for the diagram and explanation Ron!

    In my wing chun, in regards to footwork I use the 8 angular lines on the inside of your diagram (plum blossom footwork) for offence, and the outside arrows for evasion or repositioning for an immediate counter attack (Bagua). Is the footwork in Fujian white crane applied using the same concept or idea in mind?

    Does this diagram apply to just Fujian white crane footwork or hand/bridge work as well?

    Also Can you explain what's going with the lines or aspects of movement, Gates and directions of this Plum Blossom Pillars diagram?

    [http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...1&d=1402901087

    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    “IRON SAND / CRANE PALM”

    Within the White Crane Gongfu art this Hand Form is used more than any other. It is a Signature Characteristic of the style on an internal level. The Wu Bei Zhi states that one point for this attack is the “Fengchi” (Pool of Wind) Point struck in and downward on the nerve sending the energy down to the way the nerve itself has exited the body following this neural pathway. The strike can also be delivered upward & in towards the skull at a 45 degree angle causing loss of motor function & consciousness by directly attacking the Lesser Occipital Nerve.

    Name:  PALM 1.jpg
Views: 2978
Size:  14.1 KB

    The Iron Sand Palm uses a special Exploding transference of energetics into the desired target via the palm. Quickly splaying or extending the fingers causes the palm to generate an expansive energy upon impact resulting in a shock wave. Much like hitting water in a container causing a strong vibrational ripple effect!

    Name:  PALM2.jpg
Views: 2987
Size:  15.8 KB

    The fingers are depicted as being “pulled” or “held” backwards …extended if you will, allowing the upper and lower palm areas to be extended forward into the strike. This teaches the initiated White Crane Gongfu practitioner that the Palm is “exploded” forward via the stretching or splaying of the fingers. This is one of the true Secrets of White Crane Gongfu and Dim Mak or Pressure Point / Blood Gate Striking …. Short, sharp, natural kinetic energy transfer ~ the Hallmark of true Original White Crane Gongfu! The palm “Explodes” onto the point and a slight “Twist” or tweaking action should also be used to transfer the kinetic energy into the area being struck.

    The “Tianzhu” (Heavenly Pillar) point (Greater Occipital Nerve) can also be struck producing a similar response. As can the “Heavenly Window” – Tianchuang which is described as being a “Window of the Sky” point as it disrupts the opponents “Shen” or “Spirit” ….. one of the more deadly points of the Wu Bei Zhi’s dusty pages.

    “Yinfeng” known as the “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Screen” point is a major point to be struck with this Hand Form.

    Mentioned in the Wu Bei Zhi’s “Diagram of the Bronze Statue” 36 Points are listed. Amongst those points is the aforementioned “Yinfeng”. Here a secret is revealed ….. the name “Shielding Wind” or “Wind Field” relates to that of the Qi and the protection of same (Life Energy) so an attack here will be fatal.

    It effects both the great auricularnerve and branches of the facial nerve.In terms of Traditional Chinese Medicine it is the intersection of the Triple Warmer and Gall Bladder Meridian with The Triple warmer being associated with the Fire Element and the Gall Bladder, the Wood element. Of course these are but a few of the areas that can be struck with this hand form.

    Name:  Iron Sand Palm.jpg
Views: 3247
Size:  20.8 KB

    This strike is used to attack the Sishencong points made up of four main points on the top of the head as well as the Baihui Point in the Centre. A strike can also be delivered with great effect to Yangbai (“Yang White”). One can clearly see the difference in the energetics of the Palms shown. The palm itself has transferred from a Yin to Yang state of energetics overloading the opponent’s body in term of the energetics. Yin Strikes will cause the opponents body to fold in and down while a Yang attack will cause the opponents body to open, lifting the feet off the floor in a less controlled fall and more volatile action. That used in the strike has the fingers splayed and the palm “pads” projected forwards adding kinetic percussive energy into the strike as per the illustration of the Iron Sand Fan Palm as seen within the Wu Bei Zhi
    It would be great to hear more about this aspect of Fujian white crane.
    Last edited by kung fu fighter; 06-18-2014 at 11:25 AM.

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