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Thread: Ip Man Wing Chun?

  1. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    Proper control of hands and legs ( body integration) is important imo for learning the knives well. Hence knives cap the Ip Man curriculum. But the knives properly used add to the movement skills of wing chun.

    Good post!

  2. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
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    Ip Man imo taught only about 4 people the full coordinated use of the knives. Two are now dead , one no longer practices leaving one: Ho Kam Ming who is except for some corrections of students and grandstudents is basically retired. Ho Kam Ming taught his senior students the knives.WSL taught Petersen, Bayer and others the knives. WSL and his students have taught many their version of the knives. Nowadays people "learn" from videos and Youtube. HKM finished his knife training with IM before WSL though WSL started wing chun before HKM. Ip Man called his knife usage- bot jom do. Others have different names for the knives.. double knives, butterfly knives etc.Many knives are poorly made- some more appropriate for hung ga and other styles.
    Proper control of hands and legs ( body integration) is important imo for learning the knives well. Hence knives cap the Ip Man curriculum.
    One does not walk around with bjds these days. ..though I knew a guy years ago who claimed that he used them in a NYC street fight.

    But the knives properly used add to the movement skills of wing chun.
    Thanks for the reply Joy! I very much agree with your last line and the knife form as I was shown it, is more in this vein. However, despite the form being shown to me through one of Ip Chun's senior students, it is a form that is very much different from those four you cite (I assume Lok Yiu is the 4th you refer too?), and I've found that I have had to turn elsewhere to be effective when sparring weapon on weapon (that could just be my inexperience with the form I was shown).

    Joy, when you learnt the knife form were you told about the different properties of the edge and flat of the blade and their kinship with or likeness to the flat and edge of the forearm and hand?

    I open that question up to others too, particularly those training through one of the many Ip Man lineages.

  3. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Thanks for the reply Joy! I very much agree with your last line and the knife form as I was shown it, is more in this vein. However, despite the form being shown to me through one of Ip Chun's senior students, it is a form that is very much different from those four you cite (I assume Lok Yiu is the 4th you refer too?), and I've found that I have had to turn elsewhere to be effective when sparring weapon on weapon (that could just be my inexperience with the form I was shown).

    Joy, when you learnt the knife form were you told about the different properties of the edge and flat of the blade and their kinship with or likeness to the flat and edge of the forearm and hand?

    I open that question up to others too, particularly those training through one of the many Ip Man lineages.
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    No- I don't think that Lok Yiu was the fourth one.

  4. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
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    No- I don't think that Lok Yiu was the fourth one.
    What about the other question?

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    \---------
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ip Man imo taught only about 4 people the full coordinated use of the knives. Two are now dead , one no longer practices leaving one: Ho Kam Ming who is except for some corrections of students and grandstudents is basically retired...

    Ip Man called his knife usage- bot jom do
    I like that you mention Ip Man named 'his' own knife form, as this too is what I have heard from my Sifu. Similar too to his 108/116 wooden man, pole and cohesive curriculum of Forms and Chisau? This is what I feel makes Ip Man Wing Chun physically identifiable, and something my Sigung was very honoured to represent even if it wasn't set up exactly how he had learnt Wing Chun himself both from Yip Man and others.

    In a true sense, it all started when the HK limited company called 'Yip Man Martial Arts Athletic Association' was formed by the man himself, as that was the only legally named business for Wing Chun with Yip Mans name attached to it. The first of it's time and something that caused quite a stir in the HK Martial Arts community back then because it didn't say 'Wing Chun/Ving Tsun'! I have heard dates like 1967 for it's beginnings but have only seen evidence it was actually formed in 1972. The YMMAAA is now owned by Sam Lau I believe. (see attched image)

    Then came the Ving Tsun Athletic Association after Yip Man died, something most of his students joined under and currently still teach by in their Nathan Road HQ, which was followed by both Ip Chun and Ip Chings own VTAA.

    A very interesting, and amazingly deep subject really.

    http://www.yipmanwingchunasso.com/im...nAssoCover.JPG
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  6. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    What about the other question?
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    All sides of the bjd have their purposes. I have a pair of the Ip Chun designed knives
    prefer using a less broad version.

  7. #112
    [QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1271725]I like that you mention Ip Man named 'his' own knife form, as this too is what I have heard from my Sifu. Similar too to his 108/116 wooden man, pole and cohesive curriculum of Forms and Chisau? This is what I feel makes Ip Man Wing Chun physically identifiable, and something my Sigung was very honoured to represent even if it wasn't set up exactly how he had learnt Wing Chun himself both from Yip Man and others.
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    The 108 is not an uncommon organizational principle in many Asian arts and arrangement- sometimes artificially imposed- depending on what you count. The origins of the 108 are in Hindu and later Buddhist astronomy.

    oops gotta get back to FIFA-glad that Belgium and Algeria won their rounds. Hope that the USA wins today though Ronaldo
    of Portugal is a team by himself..
    Messi was marvel yester day dribbling past 7 players for his final left footed goal. UK has been asleep at the wheels.
    Glad that mexico held Brazil to a draw. OOPS- I am outta here.
    Last edited by Vajramusti; 06-22-2014 at 01:01 PM.

  8. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    I have heard dates like 1967 for it's beginnings but have only seen evidence it was actually formed in 1972. The YMMAAA is now owned by Sam Lau I believe. (see attched image) Then came the Ving Tsun Athletic Association after Yip Man died, something most of his students joined under and currently still teach by in their Nathan Road HQ, which was followed by both Ip Chun and Ip Chings own VTAA.
    According to this, the VTAA was formed in 67, when Yip Man was still alive.

    http://www.vingtsun.org.hk/Origin.HTM

    They also have a "history and development" page for 1961-1970, but for some reason you can't link to it the specific dates...

    http://www.vingtsun.org.hk

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT.. View Post
    According to this, the VTAA was formed in 67, when Yip Man was still alive.

    http://www.vingtsun.org.hk/Origin.HTM

    They also have a "history and development" page for 1961-1970, but for some reason you can't link to it the specific dates...

    http://www.vingtsun.org.hk
    I do like that resource, and maybe it was the VTAA I had heard about being set up in 1967? But I am sure the 'Company' I heard had Yip Mans name attached?? Something like Yip Man Wing Chun Tong or something, like it suggests in it's write up at the top of the page. More like a 'Fellowship'.

    Still, whatever happened it is good to see these groups still active today as everything else that came afterwards is Sifu and practitioners personal development. I actually like the 'Fellowship' idea and it would be great to see something like that accessible to everyone.
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

  10. #115

    what is the general opinion

    Distance learning in wc? Has anyone looked into this? If so, is there one that could be recommended. Btw, i have tried to contact sifu? Correy in Tn asking about local or closer possible training options but have had no reply and in the process have turned up DLPs and wandered what the opinion of these were. Any thoughts? Iron shin, arm, and palm training tomorrow night so getting my typing in before my arms are too tired.

  11. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by nautavac View Post
    Distance learning in wc? Has anyone looked into this? If so, is there one that could be recommended. Btw, i have tried to contact sifu? Correy in Tn asking about local or closer possible training options but have had no reply and in the process have turned up DLPs and wandered what the opinion of these were. Any thoughts? Iron shin, arm, and palm training tomorrow night so getting my typing in before my arms are too tired.

    Sent you a PM nautavac...

  12. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by HybridWarrior View Post
    Sent you a PM nautavac...
    Sent you a pm hybridwarrior, thank you for your correspondence

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    I do like that resource, and maybe it was the VTAA I had heard about being set up in 1967? But I am sure the 'Company' I heard had Yip Mans name attached?? Something like Yip Man Wing Chun Tong or something, like it suggests in it's write up at the top of the page. More like a 'Fellowship'.

    Still, whatever happened it is good to see these groups still active today as everything else that came afterwards is Sifu and practitioners personal development. I actually like the 'Fellowship' idea and it would be great to see something like that accessible to everyone.


    I remember reading that Ip man was the chairman of an association (maybe the vtaa) then one day was voted out without being notified, cant remember much more about it, think it was in "portrait of a kung fu master".

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.O View Post
    I remember reading that Ip man was the chairman of an association (maybe the vtaa) then one day was voted out without being notified, cant remember much more about it, think it was in "portrait of a kung fu master".

    Got that wrong, says gm Ip man was the lifetime chairman. Then says later that "At one point during the VTAA years the current administrator decided to change the agreement as to how much Ip man was to recieve without talking it over with him first. This irritated Ip man so much that he walked away from the association with all of his students that could instruct classes, he stated that "its not the money, its the principle. you should have talked to me first." This left the association in a terrible bind. So they enlisted the help of a rogue wing chun instructor. This caused an untrusting tension between this instructor and Ip man for the rest of his days."

  15. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.O View Post
    Got that wrong, says gm Ip man was the lifetime chairman. Then says later that "At one point during the VTAA years the current administrator decided to change the agreement as to how much Ip man was to recieve without talking it over with him first. This irritated Ip man so much that he walked away from the association with all of his students that could instruct classes, he stated that "its not the money, its the principle. you should have talked to me first." This left the association in a terrible bind. So they enlisted the help of a rogue wing chun instructor. This caused an untrusting tension between this instructor and Ip man for the rest of his days."
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    Garbled old stuff. How does it matter?

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