Ip Man Wing Chun?

[Graham H]

How does my body know that I have a free line to attack down? The absence of any pressure or 'arms' or anything else being in the way. That point seems something PB states, and quite a bit.

You don't know anything about PB!!!!

[Graham H]

DP.....................that looks at everything as applications.

Yes he does!


The application based thinking is not the way.....................

[Graham H]

.......................in my lineage.

[LFJ]

I think because the dummy is "a log" and fixed, it can highlight a person's spacial mistakes. Move around the dummy through a sequence with, for example, poor elbow positioning and you'll realise that your positioning is poor, IMO. The same would apply to contact with the dummy's arms and poor footwork.

Recovery doesn't mean fixing postural mistakes. So what LT and WSL said don't refer to the same thing.

[Graham H]

Recovery doesn't mean fixing postural mistakes. So what LT and WSL said don't refer to the same thing.

Correct.......................................

[KPM]

Nope because that's not the correct way to do it!



Nope because it's not a pak sau combo and that's not the correct way to do it!



Nope because that's not the correct way to do it!



I don't need to open my mind! Your thinking behind the dummy is wrong. Simple as that!

Correct according to who? Wrong according to who? There are different approaches to things. Unlike you, I won't immediately assume that your's is wrong or incorrect just because it is different. Like LFJ is fond of saying.....its just a log. There are lots of things you can do with the log. It won't complain!

[KPM]

The WSL lineage is as fragmented as the rest.



...........and BTW the dummy DOES NOT represent a human being!

So, like BPWT suggested....I guess you think the arms represent those of a gorilla? The leg is the leg of a water buffalo? The log is the trunk of a bear? Of course the dummy doesn't represent a human being in any specific position or configuration, and the dummy arms and leg give you angles and lines to work on. But I think the arm is certainly a representation of the line or angle of an opponent's arm and the same for the leg. That's how many WCK lineages see it. Maybe your's doesn't. And that's fine. But enough with the sweeping statements. YOU or PB don't define the WHOLE of Wing Chun.

[Graham H]

Correct according to who? Wrong according to who? There are different approaches to things. Unlike you, I won't immediately assume that your's is wrong or incorrect just because it is different. Like LFJ is fond of saying.....its just a log. There are lots of things you can do with the log. It won't complain!

Correct according to people that have a far more effective and logical explanation of the system than you!


I know one thing you can do with your log!

[Graham H]

But I think the arm is certainly a representation of the line or angle of an opponent's arm and the same for the leg.

...................according to who? You see the problem???????????

The "limbs" of the dummy do not represent a human in any way shape or form. Of course you will think that! Like you say..........most of the WCK lineages do but don't you understand by now that all WCK are not the same for one very good reason. Most of the heads and elders of those lineages did not get taught it all and lacked any great knowledge. People seem to be able to acknowledge that but they won't acknowledge that it could have had a very detrimental effect on what they are practicing today!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU or PB don't define the WHOLE of Wing Chun.

You are correct and that makes me happy as most of it is pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You know what even if your way WAS an effective way of using WCK I would still not like it because I think it is rubbish. In that case I would have to say that I like what WSL & PB have done with the system since. They have made it 1000 times better. Of course that is not the case is it as there is only one Ving Tsun. Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, Wing Tzun, Ving Tchun, Yong Chung and all the rest of it are just BS attempts at re-inventing the wheel!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm sure we've all seen it before... but here's WSL giving a seminar on the wooden dummy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPdl-mGKL-Y

Nice clip, never seen that one before.

[Graham H]

Its not possible to teach somebody the whole system in one day so better to give them some ideas and possibilities to take away with them.


L@@k at all the comments below the video. Does it remind anybody of something?

[BPWT..]

Recovery doesn't mean fixing postural mistakes. So what LT and WSL said don't refer to the same thing.

For sure, they might not refer to the same thing - it is why I said 'perhaps'. What is your definition of recovery (in a VT sense)?

[BPWT..]

Its not possible to teach somebody the whole system in one day so better to give them some ideas and possibilities to take away with them.

I agree, but did you not say that PB spent an afternoon with you and explained the basis of the system in that short time? Why wouldn't WSL be able to do the same thing, say, in a seminar that just focussed on the dummy form?

You say that VT is simple, efficient and direct... you've learned it from PB - and you didn't need to move to Germany to learn full-time, no?

[BPWT..]

The "limbs" of the dummy do not represent a human in any way shape or form.

Okay, so help us understand what you're meaning. When in your dummy form you use Pak Sau or Bong Sau, what do make contact with? The limbs of the dummy, of course... but what do you see the limbs representing?

In your drills and training (Chi Sau and Sparring, etc), you are using Pak and Bong against an actual limb. So what are you getting from your dummy work?

[Graham H]

I agree, but did you not say that PB spent an afternoon with you and explained the basis of the system in that short time?

Yes he did explain it and then all the hard work had to come and I pretty much had to relearn everything from scratch. He also told me that not everybody "gets it"

Funny eh as I had already been practicing WSLVT for a long time with "another" well known Sifu.

Why wouldn't WSL be able to do the same thing, say, in a seminar that just focussed on the dummy form?

I wouldn't read too much into that video if I were you. It's a big problem these days and as WSL is not with us anymore so we can't can't go and meet him ourselves. It's better just to leave erratic pieces of film in the past.

You say that VT is simple, efficient and direct... you've learned it from PB - and you didn't need to move to Germany to learn full-time, no?

Nope but I attended the necessary seminars plus weeks training camps here and there and put a lot of hard work in. I was also fortunate enough to be told by PB that my thinkiing of Ving Tsun was good. That is half the battle. If I was not such a "worker" and my thinking was not so good then the result may have been very different.

Perhaps if I never questioned anything and realised that many things in WCK are rubbish and moved around by charlatans I would still be in the Ip Chun lineage. You dig?