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Thread: Ip Man Wing Chun?

  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    Sanjuro, I too believe it to be a sad statement, but nevertheless true. Perhaps it is a cultural thing. As a westerner and an educator by profession, I believe that any teacher is ethically compelled to teach honestly and straightforwardly. Not everyone shares this belief. Some (and not just martial arts instructors) believe that you always keep some things back for yourself, and perhaps also for a few select family members and friends. This may even imply misleading those you teach publicly to some degree.

    Perhaps I can illustrate this with an example from outside of the martial arts. Many years ago when I was freshly out of graduate school with my MFA in sculpture, I briefly worked for another artist and friend helping him fabricate bronze casting for a large commission. We built a small sand foundry to complete the work and developed a stream-lined and technically simplified process for quickly making castings.

    When the commission was completed and there was no more work (or money) coming in for a spell, I suggested that we contact our friends on the faculty at the local university and give a workshop demonstrating the techniques we were using. As a person with a life-long calling to teach, it seemed a natural thing to do. But my friend was appalled by the idea. Coming from a family of tradesmen, he saw this as "giving away hard-earned trade secrets to our future competitors".

    Similarly, my old sifu knowingly held back certain information and even made minor mis-representations of some of the movements in his version of the forms as published in his books and posters sold to the public. Like my sculptor friend, my sifu felt that just "giving away" such hard-earned information to future competitors was naive and, in his own words, "breaking your rice-bowl". In fact he felt that the minor errors published in his books (including one co-authored with Yip Chun) were "very clever", since they were like a signature that could be used instantly to tell who had the real training. He pointed out that all the really clever masters (including by inference, Yip Man) did the same. Only a stupid person wouldn't understand this. Clearly those few of us present to hear this were meant to be flattered since we were part of the "inner circle" getting the real stuff.

    Unfortunately I'm a "stupid person" who ultimately could not accept that way of thinking and now train independently with a man of perhaps less skill but ethics more in line with my own.
    If we can't mean what we say ( or do) then we can never say ( or do) what we mean.
    In short, one can NOT trust the dishonest.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  2. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT.. View Post
    You're free to leave the conversation, but I've noticed you often do this when someone doesn't agree with you and asks further questions. You've given some answers (though I think they need more explanation to make good sense) but you're kinda selective in what you respond to.
    Thats BS! I only leave the conversations when people like you continually prove that they can't see the wood for the trees! I just end up repeating myself all the time!

    These topics have been rinsed for months and you still don't get it! You never will! It's a big fail on your part IMO but then why should you get it? You're in the LTWT lineage which is full of massive fails!
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    @BPWT - It may be more practical for your dummy that's supposed to model a human to look like this:

    Attachment 8835
    Kind of defeats some of the purposes of the wooden dummy IMO.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    @BPWT - It may be more practical for your dummy that's supposed to model a human to look like this:

    Attachment 8835
    LMAO. Yes that is what I think of when I read BPWT's post!

    Maybe there is a double leg kit as well!
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  5. #500
    What about this one BPWT????????
    Name:  Wing_Chun_wooden_dummy.jpg
Views: 316
Size:  86.6 KB
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  6. #501
    Or this one?

    Name:  Capture.JPG
Views: 302
Size:  45.3 KB
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT.. View Post
    Eh? You mean it is a tool to train overreaching.
    Imagining the wooden dummy as a person is overreaching already, before you even start on it.

    He talked about his own elbow positing as the reason for the height of the arms. I asked him why he needs that elbow positioning in relation to contact with the dummies arms.
    He's talking his own elbow positioning determining the height of the dummy, and you're turning around and saying his elbow positioning needs to be in relation to contact with the dummy's arms. It's the exact opposite.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    What about this one BPWT????????
    Name:  Wing_Chun_wooden_dummy.jpg
Views: 316
Size:  86.6 KB
    That's so you can train to fight tall people on one side and short people on the other without having to adjust the height every time.

  9. #504
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    Different systems use different types of dummies, you guys know that.
    SPM uses a different type, HK, CLF, PM, Northern Mantis, they all use dummies that are suited to THEIR development goals.
    It is logical that you will find different types of WD.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    29 pages...
    Oivay.
    Yes SR. Please read through and compare Graham's tone and responses to BPWT's or Paddington's. Yet no moderator has called Graham on it and pointed it out to him. And you wonder why this is past 29 pages?

  11. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT.. View Post
    Yes. It's just that the likes of LS, LY, WSL, TST, HKM, etc, all spend many years learning from YM, and many more years training. And I'm sure they all had/have talent. And they all have slightly different approaches, and I don't really have a problem with that.

    It doesn't make sense (to me) to think that only one person got it, or had talent, or trained hard, etc.
    +1 Graham seems to still be of the opinion that only PB has it right and everyone else's WCK is worthless, including other WSLVT people.

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT.. View Post
    That's really my point. The forms, including the dummy form, are all about reference points and yes, in relation to our body structure, and also limits connected to actions... I agree... but all of these things (references, structure, limits) are all in relation to something - and that something is the opponent.

    The art/system is all about how we engage with the opponent (their actions and our actions in relation to theirs).

    So the dummy is a tool, like you say - but a tool to help you apply the system regarding the above. You say it is for individual improvement, but improvement for what? Improvement of your VT when using your VT.

    In a fight you wouldn't Pak Sau the air - you'd Pak against the opponent. To a degree, the dummy has to represent that. The dummy's 'arms' have a specific height. The dummy's leg has a specific position/shape.



    .
    Again.....+1, but you're making too much logical sense now BPWT.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpm View Post
    again.....+1, but you're making too much logical sense now bpwt.
    !!! :d :d :d

  14. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    KPM, Paddington, et al. Haven't you heard the old saying? Never waste your time discussing with a man whose mind is made up. The following remarks are not directed at Graham.

    The wooden dummy is obviously an abstraction originally derived from the human form (that originally would have been an opponent or training partner). It is also obviously no longer a human form. Like others LT also said that that it functions as a "protractor" that properly understood allows the practitioner to correct his movements and structure. It teaches many other things too. But to say that it isn't derived from the human form is simply being dogmatic.
    In my opinion you are absolutely right on 2 counts Steve! On the 3rd count, you are wrong. That is, your remarks absolutely should be directed at Graham. But it wouldn't make any difference.

  15. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Yes SR. Please read through and compare Graham's tone and responses to BPWT's or Paddington's. Yet no moderator has called Graham on it and pointed it out to him. And you wonder why this is past 29 pages?
    Unfortunately I can't really edit or delete or ban based on tone.
    I suggest you either ignore Graham ( Lord knows many do) or simply state your case and let him rant, if your case is valid and your points are justified and correct, they will speak volumes louder than any rude tone in opposition.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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