Ip Man Wing Chun?

[BPWT..]

LT does have the typical teacher/student posed photos with Yip Man. But for all I know Yip Man was willing to pose with anyone who asked!

Pics together training (wooden dummy work)
Pics together at Leung Ting's opening of a school
Pics together at Leung Ting WT exhibitions
Pics together at Leung Ting's wedding
Interview with Yip Man - Yip Man's own words

But according to Graham, it's all false information.

Why? Because in his eyes this connection might invalidate all the BS he writes here, and all the nonsense he hears from PB who, apparently, doesn't like Leung Ting.

Kindergarten games and logic.

[Graham H]

Pics together training (wooden dummy work)
Pics together at Leung Ting's opening of a school
Pics together at Leung Ting WT exhibitions
Pics together at Leung Ting's wedding
Interview with Yip Man - Yip Man's own words

But according to Graham, it's all false information.

Why? Because in his eyes this connection might invalidate all the BS he writes here, and all the nonsense he hears from PB who, apparently, doesn't like Leung Ting.

Kindergarten games and logic.

Yadda yadda yadda. You really are a complete tw@t!

[BPWT..]

And you really don't have a leg to stand on in this argument.

You are simply happy to explain it all away by calling Yip Man a liar. Heck, you're even calling WSL a liar if you think about it, as he too knew that LT was learning from YM - who appointed him as a chief instructor to the association WSL was a president of.

But yeah... no connection between LT and YM, right?

There really is no end to your stupidity.

(by the way, this is the same WSL who gave a sign with his hand-written calligraphy on it - as a present to LT when he opened his school. A sign LT proudly placed above his school's entrance)

[LFJ]

Just for the record, this is the man in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmftLF6QbWA

[BPWT..]

And here he is again. This 'junior' guy who apparently had no connection to Yip Man but who somehow seems to have been a part of the family of long-term students, etc.

So very strange, isn't it?

[LFJ]

It's not difficult to be around and get into pictures.

One of my teachers in another style has people from all over the world come and train periodically at his school. He's very welcoming and they end up with all kinds of pictures which they take back to their countries and use to open their schools claiming to be his disciples.

So really, a few pictures with some people over the years doesn't really say anything except that they got in on some photo opportunities. I'd rather look at what they have to show for their training with such a master. Those who know better will spot it right away, and those who don't will fall for their stories and defend them against all logic.

It's not a rare occurrence or unique to Wing Chun. Seen it a thousand times.

[BPWT..]

Yeah, that must be it. He just happened to turn up. It was a case of lucky timing, LFJ

And he was given a chief instructor role by YM at YM's Ving Tsun association because... I don't know, LT walked in at the right time for a cup of tea and the position just happened to be vacant?

Maybe if he hadn't got stuck in traffic that day and he'd got there earlier he would have been given the president's position before WSL slipped on a banana peel, fell into the room and landed in the president's chair?

Keep grasping at straws guys.

[LFJ]

What I'm saying is that it says nothing about those people's positions or relationship. It's just a picture and people are generally nice about taking photos with anyone. It'd be really awkward for anyone to tell someone to get out of the frame. People usually don't think about how pictures may be used in the future to embellish stories. They just let it snap.

Pictures, ranks, and titles are not their substance though. That's all that really matters.

[Vajramusti]

Are thread titles meaningful?
A title of Ip Man wing chun now has deteriorated to discussion of Leung Ting!

[Faux Newbie]

Yes, it's much easier to argue lineage than discuss method.

I know people who teach my style who are better, and some who are worse. The only thing that can damage mine is how I practice and how I present myself.

I'm not sure some wing chun people get that how and who one chooses to argue with can reflect more poorly on them than that someone is doing or teaching their style wrong.

This is why you aren't part of the same school. In China, it is not uncommon to view someone who has learned a style teaching it their way, even altering it. MOST choose to get along anyway. The ones who argue seem to annoy them, though they are stuck, due to their ties to others, not voicing their opinions.

[Faux Newbie]

Perhaps if people could define what THEY view as IMWC, instead of what and who is not, someone could actually prove their point!

Of course, this will have wait until I perfect the rocket packs for my army of pigs.

[BPWT..]

Sure. But what I'm saying is look at images (LT and VT seniors, and LT and Yip Man in a teaching environment); look at the relationships (Yip Man present at LT's school openings, exhibitions, his wedding); look at statements from Yip Man (saying he was teaching LT privately, YM appointing LT to a teaching position within YM's VT association); look at the time spent (LT learned from the LS line and then spend 1.5 years having weekly private lessons + 2 hour+ meetings with Yip Man).

It is illogical to add up all of this... and then "Pull a Graham" and say that that there was no relationship/connection between LT and YM. No one can be that blind. It is lying, wilful BS from Graham.

In another thread Graham pulled off another one of his spectacular bullish!t one-liners. He said, "Dude, LT learnt hardly anything from Yip Man."

And I said: "If you, Graham, had learnt most of the WSL system from a teacher, and then you met PB and had the chance to have a private lesson with him each and every week... for about a year and a half... and in addition, each time you visited you also later grabbed a coffee with the man and spend a couple of hours talking WCK and asking all and any questions you liked... are you saying you'd have 'learnt hardly anything' from PB during that year and a half?"

Of course, he didn't respond. Because he can't. He knows it is illogical to think LT would have learned 'hardly anything' under those circumstances, and he knows it is bullish!t to claim YM wasn't a private student. The only way he can do so is to say that YM lied about it. Which he doesn't directly do. He just says, "I don't care what Yip Man said." Which is basically the same thing, he's just not honest enough to admit it.

And yet... he continues to make this dumb@rse claims.

Why? Because the truth is ugly for him. LTWT is different to PBVT, and he (and possibly you too) can't marry two things (that difference, and the rather obvious truth that LT learned from Yip Man). Anything he sees - from any given WC/VT/WT group - that is different to what he does, must, by default, be a misinterpretation from those other people.

Why? Because the only alternative is for him to admit that there might be more out there, and that what is out there isn't necessarily "Bullsh!t".


Here's a clip of Chris Collins. He describes forward pressure in Chi Sau, and how you should train this with a partner. Simple, LTWT, as it is taught in Hong Kong. Nothing illogical about it. Maybe its different to the WSL method. Maybe it's different to PB's interpretation of the WSL method. But the method being shown here, and the simple idea behind it, is the way LT has taught it since having lessons with YM and having opened his own schools in Hong Kong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_JO8QEabjI

[BPWT..]

Yes, it's much easier to argue lineage than discuss method.

This is true. But often they're the same argument. WSL's method, PB's method, LT's method.

[Faux Newbie]

This is true. But often they're the same argument. WSL's method, PB's method, LT's method.

If method comes up. Otherwise, it's just arguing lineage.

I'm not calling anyone the real whatever, but the quickest way to shut down BS is to bring up technical discussion. Technical discussion drives out the people who only really know lineage arguments.

Arguing lineage always ends up citing a bunch of sifus, and the odds of citing 5 sifus, no matter how good their kung fu, and none of them are gossiping hens, are suspiciously similar to the odds the guidance system for my rocket powered pig army is going to work.

[Faux Newbie]

Here's a clip of Chris Collins. He describes forward pressure in Chi Sau, and how you should train this with a partner. Simple, LTWT, as it is taught in Hong Kong. Nothing illogical about it. Maybe its different to the WSL method. Maybe it's different to PB's interpretation of the WSL method. But the method being shown here, and the simple idea behind it, is the way LT has taught it since having lessons with YM and having opened his own schools in Hong Kong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_JO8QEabjI

Interesting. Aside from lineage and who attends whose birthday parties, what technical differences do you see as existing between the competing lines of YMWC?

That (the birthday party thing) wasn't aimed at you, just a joke.