Wing Chun Power Generation

[Faux Newbie]

Why do you feel the constant need to speak for other people? You really should 'stick' to your own conversations you have with people vs. trying to mediate what everyone else is talking about because I have no idea what you're going on about at this point. Thanks, but no thanks

It's really not so hard to admit you're wrong. You got all weird because he CLEARLY agreed with you, then got on him for not accepting someone agreeing, you got touchy about me, then called him sensitive. If others have to read that all day, it does become their business. You were wrong, man up.

And "I don't wanoo" is not an adult answer.

[Faux Newbie]

A number of people on this forum want to judge others and not have their conduct judged, and include insults in every thread, the results should be no surprise.

Back to the topic.

In relation to weightedness, this has little bearing. If one practitioner has 100-0 stance, 60-40, or 50-50. in order to move the lead foot forward, they automatically have to transition to 100-0, even if they are in free fall forward. How they manage this is fairly consistent across kung fu styles. This does not mean they are not each unique, but, for the most part, how they manage this is very consistent.

[JPinAZ]

No. The stances are identical to a huge number of styles, the variations as well. Stepping from one to the other is, likewise, pretty consistent from kung fu style to kung fu style, with the caveat that the older versions tended to use the wave generation we discussed before. Later styles seemed to turn their rear toe more forward than the older ones. Even the weight differences and arguments for them are common to a huge range of kung fu styles.

Ok, you once again jumped to another point we weren't even discussing. Now you are arguing stances, where just the last few posts I thought we talking footwork and power generation. Are you just taking a p!ss at this point?

To give you the benefit of the doubt before I bow out of the conversation (as this bouncing around of subjects is getting old):
So if I have this right, you are saying that WC stances are "identical" to a "huge" number other arts along?(along with WC footwork and power generation apparently)
What exactly do you base this opinion on?
Please, share with everyone here, beside your apparent good amount of understanding of WC you gained from sparring against your WC friend, how many other styles have you personally studied to base this (IMO narrow) view of WC and sooo many other arts on and also to tell me 'no' (that I am wrong)? You do realize how silly this sounds right? And you say this even after I took the time to point out very specific examples from both my personal WC experience/understanding as well as a non WC POV the many differences beyond basic generalities (which I noticed you totally passed right over and didn't include in your reply).

If this sounds a bit direct, it should because that is my intention. While I don't pretend to know everything about anything, and everyone is free to their own opinion, I do share my views based on many years experience in 2 WC lineages as well as boxing. What do you base yours on to tell me 'no' and imply I don't know what I'm talking about?

[Faux Newbie]

Ok, you once again jumped to another point we weren't even discussing. Now you are arguing stances, where just the last few posts I thought we talking footwork and power generation. I think you are just taking a p!ss at this point?

Stance work and footwork are intrinsically connected. This is common sense.

But to give you the benefit of the doubt one last time (as this is bouncing around is getting really old):
So now you are saying that, along with WC footwork and power generation, WC stances are the also basically "identical" to a "huge" number other arts along, with? What exactly do you base this opinion on? Please, feel free to share with everyone here how many styles have you personally studied along with your apparent good amount of understanding of WC you gained sparring against your WC friend, to base this view on and also tell me 'no' (that I am wrong). Even after I pointed out with specific examples from both my personal WC POV as well as a non WC POV the many differences beyond basic generalities. (which I noticed you totally passed right over and didn't include in your reply)

Those stances were not unique to wing chun. They simply are not. They are common stances. Provide pictures of unique wing chun stances, and I would be happy to change my assertion, but those simply are common stances. Don't worry, you're still a beautiful butterfly, it's just not because of unique stance work, but what you do with those stances.

If this sounds a bit direct, it should because that is my intention. While I don't pretend to know everything about anything, and everyone is free to their own opinion, I do share my views based on many years experience in 2 WC lineages as well as boxing. What do you base yours on to tell me 'no' and imply I don't know what I'm talking about?

Knowledge of three other kung fu styles, general knowledge of other kung fu styles that use the same stances.

** I'm going to ignore the rest of the non-topic remarks/post from you as I'm really not interested in debating that nonsense dribble with you. And frankly, I'm starting to get the impression you are beginning to troll at this point.

Not trolling, you expect to be treated a certain way that you don't treat others, no need to discuss that further, our opinions are clear.

[Faux Newbie]

The idea that a broad range of styles with the same common stances are each ignoring how the others transition from stance to stance and reinventing it is at odds with what appear to have been the norms before the modern age. And since then, the issues faced have been faced by all styles with those same transitions to make, and how they have dealt with it has influenced each other greatly.

[JPinAZ]

Ok, it needs addressing

..... If others have to read that all day, it does become their business........

And "I don't wanoo" is not an adult answer.

Don't like it, don't read it. No one asked you for your 2 cents and no one forced you to give it. It's only your business if your ego can't take not being part of every discussion and you make it so. Fact is, I think you get off on playing this weird WC forum cop gig you've taken on and really, it's a bit disturbing that you would act like this.

Now, if you don't like that adult answer, then here's the childish one - go f' yourself

[Wayfaring]

The idea that a broad range of styles with the same common stances are each ignoring how the others transition from stance to stance and reinventing it is at odds with what appear to have been the norms before the modern age. And since then, the issues faced have been faced by all styles with those same transitions to make, and how they have dealt with it has influenced each other greatly.

I just ran that paragraph through a WTF meter, and all I got out of it was "there are many roads to reach your destination"

[Faux Newbie]

I just ran that paragraph through a WTF meter, and all I got out of it was "there are many roads to reach your destination"

So, do you think that all kung fu styles transition through predominantly the same stances in entirely unique ways that are not influenced by each other?

[Faux Newbie]

Ok, it needs addressing



Don't like it, don't read it. No one asked you for your 2 cents and no one forced you to give it. It's only your business if your ego can't take not being part of every discussion and you make it so. Fact is, I think you get off on playing this weird WC forum cop gig you've taken on and really, it's a bit disturbing that you would act like this.

Now, if you don't like that adult answer, then here's the childish one - go f' yourself

If we're reading responses on content, there's no warning sign that someone has taken time YET AGAIN to include some old bs flame war.

[Wayfaring]

So, do you think that all kung fu styles transition through predominantly the same stances in entirely unique ways that are not influenced by each other?

Painting with a brush that takes one stroke per barn, are we?

My experience with kung fu styles, as well as other martial arts styles is that many styles associate a stance and a movement together as a single concept to train or an intertwined concept. While two arts' stances may appear outwardly similar, my experience is that many times the movement and power generation ideas associated with that stance are vastly different. Thus I would say yes, the stances themselves are different even though they may look similar because you can't really extract the position of the feet and arms from the movement to get to and from there.

[Faux Newbie]

Painting with a brush that takes one stroke per barn, are we?

My experience with kung fu styles, as well as other martial arts styles is that many styles associate a stance and a movement together as a single concept to train or an intertwined concept. While two arts' stances may appear outwardly similar, my experience is that many times the movement and power generation ideas associated with that stance are vastly different. Thus I would say yes, the stances themselves are different even though they may look similar because you can't really extract the position of the feet and arms from the movement to get to and from there.

Clear enough, and I can get what you mean in that context. I would suggest that that still leaves more similarities than differences, but I suppose that would be entirely situational to what the various limbs are doing for the move.

[Wayfaring]

Clear enough, and I can get what you mean in that context. I would suggest that that still leaves more similarities than differences, but I suppose that would be entirely situational to what the various limbs are doing for the move.

To me any similarity / difference conversation always has to be entered with a view to the level of detail discussing.

For example: "It's the same" 15,000 foot level

"No it's completely different" 5 foot level

"OK I see where you are coming from" somewhere around the 4500 foot level or varies.

[Faux Newbie]

To me any similarity / difference conversation always has to be entered with a view to the level of detail discussing.

For example: "It's the same" 15,000 foot level

"No it's completely different" 5 foot level

"OK I see where you are coming from" somewhere around the 4500 foot level or varies.

I've put some thought into your earlier post, and even within one style, two moves that may both begin rear weighted and end in bow, due to the different actions, express very differently overall. Much of the intermediate motion is often the same, but ultimately, yes, big differences, so "I see where you are coming from".

And the above post(yours) was an excellent way of putting it.

I still think there are a lot of commonalities, but clearly differences cannot simply be discounted as superficial if they change the overall expression.

[JPinAZ]

Those stances were not unique to wing chun. They simply are not. They are common stances. Provide pictures of unique wing chun stances, and I would be happy to change my assertion, but those simply are common stances. Don't worry, you're still a beautiful butterfly, it's just not because of unique stance work, but what you do with those stances.

I never once discussed stances with you. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote earlier, as I was talking specific HFY WC footwork and even took the time to name them. If you want to continue playing these silly word games go ahead. But I am starting to think you must just be trolling at this point, otherwise why do you keep changing the subject?

Knowledge of three other kung fu styles, general knowledge of other kung fu styles that use the same stances.

You have 'knowledge' of 3 styles?! what the he11 does that even mean? I have knowledge of a neighbor that just moved in down the street, but doesn't mean I know anything about them, or even their name.
I asked you about actual experience you base your opinions on to tell me 'no' I am wrong, and you speak of 'general knowledge' and can't even list one style/art? hahahaha.
Looks like the truth is, you don't have much real experience which you base your opinions on outside your one art. No wonder you can't stick with a normal conversation and keep playing word games.

Not trolling, you expect to be treated a certain way that you don't treat others, no need to discuss that further, our opinions are clear.

sorry, not buying the not trolling bit any more..

[Faux Newbie]

I never once mentioned a stance. I was talking specific HFY WC footwork, which you have no idea or experience of, which is why you are playing these silly word games. And I am sure of it now, you're just trolling at this point - and poorly at that.

Not trolling. I did a search on the terms you used (as I do not speak cantonese, I could not simply put the characters in Baidu), and the stances I saw were plenty familiar, though I did not see footage. However, since I already agreed with Wayfarer's point that the expression of it do to what the limbs do with create unique expressions, and thus stated that my original assertion was heavily overstated, this part of the conversation has moved on.

You have 'knowledge' of 3 styles?! what the he11 does that even mean? I have knowledge of a neighbor that just moved in down the street, but doesn't mean I know anything about them, or even their name.
I asked you about actual experience you base your opinions on to tell me 'no' I am wrong, and you speak of 'general knowledge' and can't even list one style/art? hahahaha.
Looks like the truth is, you don't have much real experience which you base your opinions on outside your one art. No wonder you can't stick with a normal conversation and keep playing word games.

Taixuquan is what I teach and is my primary art, my first kung fu style was longfist, and I have studied Chen style.

sorry, not buying the not trolling bit any more..

That's fine, though I'm not trolling, you may believe what you like.