Wing Chun Power Generation

[JPinAZ]

Not trolling. I did a search on the terms you used (as I do not speak cantonese, I could not simply put the characters in Baidu), and the stances I saw were plenty familiar, though I did not see footage..

LOL, I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode

You asked me "If you could point me to more than one single step in wing chun footwork that isn't common to all kung fu, I would be shocked. ", which I was gave a very detail reply here:http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...16#post1272016
For you to reply 'No. The stances are identical to a huge number of styles, the variations as well' What part of my reply said anything about stances? If you didn't understand, you could have simply asked

You and a few others complained that 'we' don't want to share info about our art. But when I do, look how it's received. And you wonder why some people get frustrated around here..

[Faux Newbie]

LOL, I feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone episode

You asked me "If you could point me to more than one single step in wing chun footwork that isn't common to all kung fu, I would be shocked. ", which I was gave a very detail reply here:http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...16#post1272016
For you to reply 'No. The stances are identical to a huge number of styles, the variations as well' What part of my reply said anything about stances? If you didn't understand, you could have simply asked

You and a few others complained that 'we' don't want to share info about our art. But when I do, look how it's received. And you wonder why some people get frustrated around here..

1) I never complained that you don't want to share information about your art. I complained about people not reigning in their flame wars.

2) I already stated that I looked at still images, and thus did not inform myself enough.

You like to hide when you are wrong and point out when others are wrong, so I am hardly going to feel bad for a simple error on my part.

If you can't deal with miscommunications, that is your issue.

[KPM]

Okay, to make it simple.

What do readers feel is a reasonable range of time a practicing student might to need to transition from practicing stationary power generation to also practicing it with appropriate footwork?

I think it varies with the individual. I want to see a student getting the technique down as well as being balanced and controlled. Then the footwork can be added. Some students may take longer to get there than others. But generally its not long. I agree that adding the footwork can provide feedback to how the student is using the body for power generation. So we might start on the footwork, then back off for awhile and go back to doing it without the footwork to incorporate some of that feedback. Then get back to the footwork again. But in Pin Sun WCK, the short sets are practiced on the dummy almost right from the beginning. You can't work the dummy very well without footwork. So some basic footwork is incorporated right from the start.

[JPinAZ]

1) I never complained that you don't want to share information about your art. I complained about people not reigning in their flame wars.

Hmm. Didn't you join in on the discussion of the recent, now-deleted HFY thread by kff, pointing out how there were many posts and still no content from us HFY guys? I could have sworn you did..... but since it's not here any more, maybe I was wrong.

2) I already stated that I looked at still images, and thus did not inform myself enough.

I must have missed that, was this is it?
"However, since I already agreed with Wayfarer's point that the expression of it do to what the limbs do with create unique expressions, and thus stated that my original assertion was heavily overstated, this part of the conversation has moved on."

If so, my mistake - I honestly had a difficult time understanding what you were saying there.

If you can't deal with miscommunications, that is your issue.

I can deal with them fine, if I'm aware they are happening. Anyway, I'm over it let's move on.

But I do agree with you on one thing you said today, you are an arsehole. You fit in just fine around here

[KPM]

The idea that a broad range of styles with the same common stances are each ignoring how the others transition from stance to stance and reinventing it is at odds with what appear to have been the norms before the modern age. And since then, the issues faced have been faced by all styles with those same transitions to make, and how they have dealt with it has influenced each other greatly.

WCK was not created in a vacuum or on a distant planet. How could it NOT share stances and footwork with other systems. And there are only so many ways a human body can move. So I agree with you. But it sure seems like this thread has a whole lot of "well....duuuuh!" type insights.

[Faux Newbie]

WCK was not created in a vacuum or on a distant planet. How could it NOT share stances and footwork with other systems. And there are only so many ways a human body can move. So I agree with you. But it sure seems like this thread has a whole lot of "well....duuuuh!" type insights.

I think most of the last bit was mostly about what quantifies footwork, so yeah, a bit on the obvious side. Still, the devil is in the details sometimes.

[PalmStriker]

well if it doesn't then perhaps you could do your job and just remove the offending posts rather than delete the entire thread? Yeah, it is more time consuming but i and others have already offered to help out with respects to moderating these boards. Ironically, your post above is off topic and has solicited my equally off topic reply to you.

no soliciting.

[Hendrik]

I think you guys just make things too complicated


IMHO,

Footwork or no foot work the basic elements are :


1. Hitting or issuing force flow

2. Source of power, ground coupling , transportation direction , and target.

3. Action and reaction force .


Unless one address all of these basic handling, getting into foot work is just confuse the issue.
Stance doesn't tell the above basic either if one don't know these basic elements clearly.
Doesn't know these basic element clearly just mean one is default into ones own intrinsic . And god knows what is that because every person is born different.

Even worst if one getting into long fist ar or short strike art. Without the above basic elements sort out, jump into stance and footwork it is a mess

[GlennR]

I think you guys just make things too complicated

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! **** me, ive never laughed so hard!!!

[zuti car]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! **** me, ive never laughed so hard!!!

I almost fell off the chair

[Paddington]

Says the guy that has to refrain from commenting so it isn't riddled it with expletives... Just because you don't say what you are really thinking doesn't mean the intent doesn't come thru loud and clear when you finally post. [...]

Fair enough, I'll PM you instead of posting in this thread.

[BPWT..]

In our training we start things quite early. For example, footwork and hand motions are taught together from the beginning, and we often use chest protectors during set drills so that we can become familiar with hitting a 'human' target with some force. When you start out, your power generation and its use is bad, as is the correct distancing, timing, etc, as people aren't used to co-ordinating all of these things together. So lots of training is required

We also train power stationary too, on the wall bag, and work stepping with striking on the heavy bag. Sometimes we do pad work too - which really shows you your problems (you moving, the other guy moving, while you're trying to a: hit the target, b: do so with good force).

Once we get to Chi Sau training then its about controlling the power when things are happening quickly. In the Lat Sau training things can get rougher, as there's more momentum involved. One thing overlooked, IMO, is learning to let go of fear. It's hard to train power with a training partner if you're in fear of getting hit (everyone is so, when they start).

[sanjuro_ronin]

Since western boxing was mentioned:
http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-t...punching-power

Its a really good site that may also teach some people here HOW to discuss things because you will note that he not only discusses things openly BUT also SHOWS and DEMOS them and even links to videos to demonstrate his points.

[Hendrik]

IMHO, Wck has the seven bows training.
As in the issue 18 of Wing chun illustrated , article by sifu Robert Chu

Since western boxing was mentioned:
http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-t...punching-power

Its a really good site that may also teach some people here HOW to discuss things because you will note that he not only discusses things openly BUT also SHOWS and DEMOS them and even links to videos to demonstrate his points.

[Faux Newbie]

In our training we start things quite early. For example, footwork and hand motions are taught together from the beginning, and we often use chest protectors during set drills so that we can become familiar with hitting a 'human' target with some force. When you start out, your power generation and its use is bad, as is the correct distancing, timing, etc, as people aren't used to co-ordinating all of these things together. So lots of training is required

We also train power stationary too, on the wall bag, and work stepping with striking on the heavy bag. Sometimes we do pad work too - which really shows you your problems (you moving, the other guy moving, while you're trying to a: hit the target, b: do so with good force).

Once we get to Chi Sau training then its about controlling the power when things are happening quickly. In the Lat Sau training things can get rougher, as there's more momentum involved. One thing overlooked, IMO, is learning to let go of fear. It's hard to train power with a training partner if you're in fear of getting hit (everyone is so, when they start).

I think this would describe most training experiences. Unless one is just working on stationary gongs for power generation and training nothing else (which no one really does in the modern age), or unless they are working on those and then working footwork, hand techniques, etc, without ANY power, they are already doing the things that require what the moving gongs are trying to teach, so, like in what you describe, earlier is better, because they are going to do things wrong anyway, may as well catch the errors early and give them more time to experience what they are doing. It seems like almost everyone agrees on this, not saying anything new here, mostly just agreeing.