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Thread: Socrates practiced QiGong!

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Imagine at its extreme no one ever learns their discipline
    So reading Plato is a discipline now? Look I don't expect you to understand but the subtext of the argument is efficiency. Specifically the efficiency of executive function.

    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    they just get very good at interpreting wikipedia?
    The technical jargon is 'critical thinking'. Considering how desperately you're signaling the pursuit of a liberal arts education you should probably be able to make that distinction. Or maybe the grad student teaching your intro philosophy seminar was too busy chasing coed tail (I hear that's the perk of a career in liberal arts academia) to cover that section.

    Now if I may,

    You spent half a dozen years immersed in Chinese buddhist philosophy and you come back to start studying Plato & Socrates? Shit on my tits has no one told you about Thales, Empodocles, Anaxagoras, Anaximander, Parmenides, Heraclitus?



    The pre-Socratics are the closest you'll ever come to a western analogue to Eastern philosophy, sheeeeeeeeit give any pre-Socratic philosopher a Chinese name and you would hardly be able to tell the difference.

    "Anaximander of Miletus, the first philosophical author of the ancients, writes exactly as one expects a typical philosopher to write when alienating demands have not yet robbed him of his innocence and naivete. That is to say, in graven stylized letters, sentence after sentence the witness to fresh illumination, each the expression of time spent in sublime meditation. Each single thought and its form is a milestone upon the path to the highest wisdom. Thus, with lapidary impressiveness, Anaximander says upon one occasion, "Where the source of things is, to that place they must also pass away, according to necessity, for they must pay penance and be judged for their injustices, in accordance with the ordinance of time."



    Enigmatic proclamation of a true pessimist, oracular legend over the boundary stone of Greek philosophy: how shall we interpret you?

    The only serious moralist of our century in Parergis (Vol. II, Chapter 12) charges us with a similar reflection.

    "The proper measure with which to judge any and all human beings is that they are really creatures who should not exist at all and who are doing penance for their lives by their manifold sufferings and their death. What could we expect of such creatures? Are we not all sinners under sentence of death? We do penance for having been born, first by living and then by dying."


    A man who can read such a lesson in the physiognomy of our common human lot, who can recognize the basic poor quality of any and all human life in the very fact that not one of us will bear close scrutiny (although our era, infected with the biographical plague, seems to think quite different and statelier thoughts as to the dignity of man), a man who, like Schopenhauer, has heard upon the heights of India's clear air the holy word of the moral value of existence - such a man will find it difficult to keep from indulging in a highly anthropomorphic metaphor. He will extract that melancholy doctrine from its application to human life and project it unto the general quality of all existence. It may not be logical, but it certainly is human, to view now, together with Anaximander, all coming-to-be as though it were an illegitimate emancipation from eternal being, a wrong for which destruction is the only penance. Everything that has ever come-to-be again passes away, whether we think of human life or of water or of hot and cold. Wherever definite qualities are perceivable, we can prophesy, upon the basis of enormously extensive experience, the passing away of these qualities. Never, in other words, can a being which possesses definite qualities or consists of such be the origin or first principle of things. That which truly is, concludes Anaximander, cannot possess definite characteristics, or it would come-to-be and pass away like all the other things. In order that coming-to-be shall not cease, primal being must be indefinite. The immortality and everlastingness of primal being does not lie in its infinitude or its inexhaustibility, as the commentators of Anaximander generally assume, but in the fact that it is devoid of definite qualities that would lead to its passing. Hence its name, the indefinite. Thus named, the primal being is superior to that which comes to be, insuring thereby eternity and the unimpeded course of coming-to-be. This ultimate unity of the indefinite, the womb of all things, can, it is true, be designated by human speech only as a negative, as something to which the existent world of coming-to-be can give no predicate. We may look upon it as the equal of the Kantian ding an sich.

    Now anyone who can quarrel as to what sort of primal stuff this could have been, whether an intermediate substance between air and water or perhaps between air and fire, has certainly not understood our philosopher at all. This is equally true of those who ask themselves seriously whether Anaximander thought of his primal substance as perhaps a mixture of all existent materials. Instead, we must direct our glance to that lapidary sentence which we cited earlier, to the place where we may learn that Anaximander was no longer dealing with the question of the origin of this world in a purely physical way. Rather, when he saw in the multiplicity of things that have come-to-be a sum of injustices that must be expiated, he grasped with bold fingers the tangle of the profoundest problem in ethics. He was the first Greek to do so. How can anything pass away which has a right to be? Whence that restless, ceaseless coming-into-being and giving birth, whence that grimace of painful disfiguration on the countenance of nature, whence the neverending dirge in all the realms of existence? From this world of injustice, of insolent apostasy from the primeval oneness of all things, Anaximander flees into a metaphysical fortress from which he leans out, letting his gaze sweep the horizon.

    At last, after long pensive silence, he puts a question to all creatures: What is your existence worth? And if it is worthless, why are you here? Your guilt, I see, causes you to tarry in your existence with your death, you have to expiate it. Look how your earth is withering, how your seas are diminishing and drying up; the seashell on the mountain top can show you how much has dried up already. Even now, fire is destroying your world; some day it will go up in fumes and smoke. But ever and anew, another such world of ephemerality will construct itself. Who is there that could redeem you from the curse of coming-to-be?



    A man who poses questions such as these, whose thinking in its upward flight kept breaking all empirical ropes, catching, instead, at superlunary ones-such a man very likely does not welcome an ordinary mode of living. We can easily credit the tradition that he walked the earth clad in an especially dignified garment and displayed a truly tragic pride in his gestures and customs of daily living. He lived as he wrote; he spoke as solemnly as he dressed; he lifted his hands and placed his feet as though this existence were a tragic drama into which he had been born to play a hero. In all these things, he was the great model for Empedocles. His fellow citizens elected him to lead a colony of emigrants. Perhaps they were glad to honor him and get rid of him at the same time. His thought, too, emigrated and founded colonies. In Ephesus and in Elea, people could not rid themselves of it, and if they could not make up their minds to remain where it left them, they also knew that they h ad been led there by it, and that it was from there they would travel on without it.

    Thales demonstrated the need to simplify the realm of the many, to reduce it to the mere unfolding or masking of the one and only existent quality, water. Anaximander takes two steps beyond him. For the first, he asks himself: How is the many possible if there is such a thing as the eternal one? And he takes his answer from the self-contradictory, self-consuming and negating character of the many. Its existence becomes for him a moral phenomenon. It is not justified, but expiates itself forever through its passing.

    But then he sees another question: Why hasn't all that came-to-be passed away long since, since a whole eternity of time has passed? Whence the ever-renewed stream of coming-to-be? And from this question he can save himself only by a mystic possibility: eternal coming-to-be can have its origin only in eternal being; the conditions for the fall from being to coming-to-be in injustice are forever the same; the constellation of things is such that no end can be envisaged for the emergence of individual creatures from the womb of the indefinite. Here Anaximander stopped, which means he remained in the deep shadows which lie like gigantic ghosts upon the mountains of this world view. The closer men wanted to get to the problem of how the definite could ever fall from the indefinite, the ephemeral from the eternal, the unjust from the just, the deeper grew the night."

    TLDR; because nietzsche
    Last edited by wenshu; 07-09-2014 at 05:01 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Now if I may,

    You spent half a dozen years immersed in Chinese buddhist philosophy and you come back to start studying Plato & Socrates? Shit on my tits has no one told you about Thales, Empodocles, Anaxagoras, Anaximander, Parmenides, Heraclitus?
    You know what Wenshu, for the first time, ever, I completely agree with you! That is excellent excellent advice! Thank you.

    The Pre-Socratics in my mind have a much closer affinity to the Eastern thought. Reading fragments of Parmenides (his poem as opposed to the dialogue) and the other pre-socratics completely inspired me towards the greeks. But once my interest had been whetted....with Plato we have a large corpus as opposed to just fragments or reading about their lives in Diogenes.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

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  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    So reading Plato is a discipline now? Look I don't expect you to understand but the subtext of the argument is efficiency. Specifically the efficiency of executive function.



    The technical jargon is 'critical thinking'. Considering how desperately you're signaling the pursuit of a liberal arts education you should probably be able to make that distinction. Or maybe the grad student teaching your intro philosophy seminar was too busy chasing coed tail (I hear that's the perk of a career in liberal arts academia) to cover that section.

    Now if I may,

    You spent half a dozen years immersed in Chinese buddhist philosophy and you come back to start studying Plato & Socrates? Shit on my tits has no one told you about Thales, Empodocles, Anaxagoras, Anaximander, Parmenides, Heraclitus?



    The pre-Socratics are the closest you'll ever come to a western analogue to Eastern philosophy, sheeeeeeeeit give any pre-Socratic philosopher a Chinese name and you would hardly be able to tell the difference.

    "Anaximander of Miletus, the first philosophical author of the ancients, writes exactly as one expects a typical philosopher to write when alienating demands have not yet robbed him of his innocence and naivete. That is to say, in graven stylized letters, sentence after sentence the witness to fresh illumination, each the expression of time spent in sublime meditation. Each single thought and its form is a milestone upon the path to the highest wisdom. Thus, with lapidary impressiveness, Anaximander says upon one occasion, "Where the source of things is, to that place they must also pass away, according to necessity, for they must pay penance and be judged for their injustices, in accordance with the ordinance of time."



    Enigmatic proclamation of a true pessimist, oracular legend over the boundary stone of Greek philosophy: how shall we interpret you?

    The only serious moralist of our century in Parergis (Vol. II, Chapter 12) charges us with a similar reflection.

    "The proper measure with which to judge any and all human beings is that they are really creatures who should not exist at all and who are doing penance for their lives by their manifold sufferings and their death. What could we expect of such creatures? Are we not all sinners under sentence of death? We do penance for having been born, first by living and then by dying."


    A man who can read such a lesson in the physiognomy of our common human lot, who can recognize the basic poor quality of any and all human life in the very fact that not one of us will bear close scrutiny (although our era, infected with the biographical plague, seems to think quite different and statelier thoughts as to the dignity of man), a man who, like Schopenhauer, has heard upon the heights of India's clear air the holy word of the moral value of existence - such a man will find it difficult to keep from indulging in a highly anthropomorphic metaphor. He will extract that melancholy doctrine from its application to human life and project it unto the general quality of all existence. It may not be logical, but it certainly is human, to view now, together with Anaximander, all coming-to-be as though it were an illegitimate emancipation from eternal being, a wrong for which destruction is the only penance. Everything that has ever come-to-be again passes away, whether we think of human life or of water or of hot and cold. Wherever definite qualities are perceivable, we can prophesy, upon the basis of enormously extensive experience, the passing away of these qualities. Never, in other words, can a being which possesses definite qualities or consists of such be the origin or first principle of things. That which truly is, concludes Anaximander, cannot possess definite characteristics, or it would come-to-be and pass away like all the other things. In order that coming-to-be shall not cease, primal being must be indefinite. The immortality and everlastingness of primal being does not lie in its infinitude or its inexhaustibility, as the commentators of Anaximander generally assume, but in the fact that it is devoid of definite qualities that would lead to its passing. Hence its name, the indefinite. Thus named, the primal being is superior to that which comes to be, insuring thereby eternity and the unimpeded course of coming-to-be. This ultimate unity of the indefinite, the womb of all things, can, it is true, be designated by human speech only as a negative, as something to which the existent world of coming-to-be can give no predicate. We may look upon it as the equal of the Kantian ding an sich.

    Now anyone who can quarrel as to what sort of primal stuff this could have been, whether an intermediate substance between air and water or perhaps between air and fire, has certainly not understood our philosopher at all. This is equally true of those who ask themselves seriously whether Anaximander thought of his primal substance as perhaps a mixture of all existent materials. Instead, we must direct our glance to that lapidary sentence which we cited earlier, to the place where we may learn that Anaximander was no longer dealing with the question of the origin of this world in a purely physical way. Rather, when he saw in the multiplicity of things that have come-to-be a sum of injustices that must be expiated, he grasped with bold fingers the tangle of the profoundest problem in ethics. He was the first Greek to do so. How can anything pass away which has a right to be? Whence that restless, ceaseless coming-into-being and giving birth, whence that grimace of painful disfiguration on the countenance of nature, whence the neverending dirge in all the realms of existence? From this world of injustice, of insolent apostasy from the primeval oneness of all things, Anaximander flees into a metaphysical fortress from which he leans out, letting his gaze sweep the horizon.

    At last, after long pensive silence, he puts a question to all creatures: What is your existence worth? And if it is worthless, why are you here? Your guilt, I see, causes you to tarry in your existence with your death, you have to expiate it. Look how your earth is withering, how your seas are diminishing and drying up; the seashell on the mountain top can show you how much has dried up already. Even now, fire is destroying your world; some day it will go up in fumes and smoke. But ever and anew, another such world of ephemerality will construct itself. Who is there that could redeem you from the curse of coming-to-be?



    A man who poses questions such as these, whose thinking in its upward flight kept breaking all empirical ropes, catching, instead, at superlunary ones-such a man very likely does not welcome an ordinary mode of living. We can easily credit the tradition that he walked the earth clad in an especially dignified garment and displayed a truly tragic pride in his gestures and customs of daily living. He lived as he wrote; he spoke as solemnly as he dressed; he lifted his hands and placed his feet as though this existence were a tragic drama into which he had been born to play a hero. In all these things, he was the great model for Empedocles. His fellow citizens elected him to lead a colony of emigrants. Perhaps they were glad to honor him and get rid of him at the same time. His thought, too, emigrated and founded colonies. In Ephesus and in Elea, people could not rid themselves of it, and if they could not make up their minds to remain where it left them, they also knew that they h ad been led there by it, and that it was from there they would travel on without it.

    Thales demonstrated the need to simplify the realm of the many, to reduce it to the mere unfolding or masking of the one and only existent quality, water. Anaximander takes two steps beyond him. For the first, he asks himself: How is the many possible if there is such a thing as the eternal one? And he takes his answer from the self-contradictory, self-consuming and negating character of the many. Its existence becomes for him a moral phenomenon. It is not justified, but expiates itself forever through its passing.

    But then he sees another question: Why hasn't all that came-to-be passed away long since, since a whole eternity of time has passed? Whence the ever-renewed stream of coming-to-be? And from this question he can save himself only by a mystic possibility: eternal coming-to-be can have its origin only in eternal being; the conditions for the fall from being to coming-to-be in injustice are forever the same; the constellation of things is such that no end can be envisaged for the emergence of individual creatures from the womb of the indefinite. Here Anaximander stopped, which means he remained in the deep shadows which lie like gigantic ghosts upon the mountains of this world view. The closer men wanted to get to the problem of how the definite could ever fall from the indefinite, the ephemeral from the eternal, the unjust from the just, the deeper grew the night."

    TLDR; because nietzsche
    No. You are clearly mistaken.

  5. #80
    Very interesting reading in this thread, thanks.

    Here's a science brain-teaser you might enjoy. It's related to thread topics. Solve any way you want except scrolling down to look at the answer in a later post (honour system).

    Below are three images that in their own ways have been groundbreaking in the history of 20th century science.

    In terms of ideas brought up in the discussion between RenDeHai and SoCo, which two images belong together (and which doesn't fit). There are two reasonable answers, so if you get both, kudos!




  6. #81
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    @Rett,

    These are all diffraction patterns. Used to determine structure.

    In terms of the argument earlier, The first represents simple 'geometric' order, the second (DNA) represents the helical structure, shall we say some 'vital' order, the third is something strange.... a form of intermediate?

    Links between them? The first and last are inorganic, the second is organic (crystal, quasicrystal) vs (DNA). But also the first is simple and predictable but the next two represent something more mysterious underneath it in that they are aperiodic and can I suppose use this property to contain information (Crystal) vs (Quasicrystal, DNA).
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 07-10-2014 at 05:58 AM.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    @SoCo,

    Ahaha, Clearly I have stepped onto your 'territory', you think you are the only one with 'specialist' knowledge of science and as a result you want to be consulted every-time it is talked about, even so much as you want to deny me and have me stopped for talking about it. A very very bad aspect of behaviour.
    Consulted? Do you see me picking apart posts by Sanjuro or Syn when they talk physics/engineering? Or Wenshu et. al. when they go philosophical? No dipweed, you don't. I tear apart arguments when they are blatantly stupid, such as your own. And like an idiot you go on all butt hurt about the evil professional trying to clam up the lay speak... Literally; you, Marathon Matt (when he gets all anti evolutionary science), HardWork108 (long since banned) and HSKWarrior are the only ones I stab into. Of all the people here. That should tell you something. Such as, the idiots need to talk less and read more.

    Clearly you want to show you are knowledgable about science, yet you can't even see there is a difference to the way energy is stored by a leaf to be used at a later date and energy simply absorbed by a piece of metal. Instead of talking about the difference you have simply insulted me. When I asked a rhetorical question 'Can it release it in a months time?' You actually thought I was asking the question????? I was demonstrating the difference.
    Rhetoric is the purview of those knowledgeable on said subject of question. Something of which you have demonstrated are in great want. You are not allowed rhetorical power here. I was not answering, I was correcting.

    If you do indeed possess some qualification (it doesn't matter to me, you have every right to talk about it whether you do or not) I assure you your tutor would be ashamed of you reading your responses to this thread.
    Do you know the difference between ad hominem and a simple insult? This is ad hominem. On the other hand, my responses to you, up til now, have been straight old fashioned insult. I'll let you google the difference.

    I pointed out clearly there is a difference in the type of order between a symmetrical lattice and DNA, instead of talking about it (which a sicentist would have done) you have blanked it and taken my words out of context.
    Clearly? Anything but. You haven't made one "clear" post in this entire thread. You have repeatedly butchered and misrepresented the fundamental concepts you are now attempting to portray. I ignored this part because I was tired of correcting you.

    If you know what I am trying to say, then answer that don't just insult.
    I already have, multiple times, before you even brought up the question in fact. That's the difference between you and I. I have an actual understanding of the fundamentals. You decided to skip horse stance and jump right into *******izing everything from crystalline structure to x-ray crystalography to biochem. Everything I have responded to you with are basics. Basics which, if you had a grasp of, this entire thread would likely not have been made. At the very least, you wouldn't have made this ridiculous part of your post. You want me to lecture you on modern atomic orbital theory? Energetic and charge of electrons and how that dictates reactive site of an atom? Kinetics and thermodynamics of chemical reaction? How these concepts ultimately dictate (macro)molecular structure? My fee is around $4500 for a 5 month term. Less than what a university would charge you for what would otherwise be 2 to 2.5 years of an undergrad degree. I didn't spend years (and money) getting this education so I can give it all away for free. Consider my butchering of your post a gift. I'm letting you know what you don't know. Go empty your damn cup and try again in a few years bub. I've been giving you drops this whole time, you've simply yet to catch on.

    I don't even know how to correspond with you, you are quite unreasonable.
    Oh the ironing
    Last edited by SoCo KungFu; 07-10-2014 at 07:06 AM.

  8. #83
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    gentlemen, for the last time, be civil please.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rett2 View Post
    Here's a science brain-teaser you might enjoy. It's related to thread topics. Solve any way you want except scrolling down to look at the answer in a later post (honour system).
    1. Xray crystallography
    2. Xray crystallography
    3. Electron diffraction patterning

    conversely

    1. Zinc (obviously inorganic)
    2. DNA (obviously organic)
    3. Quasicrystal (Inorganic)

    A better question would be why are these 3 similar (this is ultimately the root of my problem with this thread actually). Heck, one is even part of the compound making up another. (and its not the one most are probably thinking)

    See this thread is indicative of a greater problem in modern thought. More and more these questions are being stripped away from the monopoly of philosophical thought, and are more and more answerable by science. All this nonsense being spewed in this thread by a certain individual can be, if not explained, conceptualized into a hypothesis under scientific conditions. But lay persons decry this because it quickly leaves the scope of their understanding. The solution isn't to dumb down the talk. The solution is for those individuals to get up to speed or get left behind. And this is why I don't stay up late at night in internal debate on the basis of consciousness.

    It also demonstrates here the danger in misuse of term. Its quite clear that RDH doesn't understand the basics in play. He is continually incorrectly interpreting contrasts such as organic/inorg and conflating them with a/periodic (the latter he is at least getting part right) and other notions such as using the mathematical concept of order and conflating it with pseudophilosophical disorder. This is not all that different than when TGY used to berate individuals for mixing concepts of TCM and mainstream western med when trying to talk health/medicine. It is equally inappropriate. Stick to one or the other, bringing in both simply drags both down in the mud of inaccuracy.
    Last edited by SoCo KungFu; 07-10-2014 at 07:40 AM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    I already have, multiple times, before you even brought up the question in fact. That's the difference between you and I. I have an actual understanding of the fundamentals. You decided to skip horse stance and jump right into *******izing everything from crystalline structure to x-ray crystalography to biochem. Everything I have responded to you with are basics. Basics which, if you had a grasp of, this entire thread would likely not have been made. At the very least, you wouldn't have made this ridiculous part of your post. You want me to lecture you on modern atomic orbital theory? Energetic and charge of electrons and how that dictates reactive site of an atom? Kinetics and thermodynamics of chemical reaction? How these concepts ultimately dictate (macro)molecular structure?
    If you look from the beginning of this post; I add a reference I stumbled upon because I thought it was fun and interesting, about socrates standing still. It is interesting, you don't need qualifications to appreciate it. Then I talked about memory, because it is interesting. Seemingly inert matter does not have memory like life forms do, The causal chain is simpler without memory. A lot of people don't consider this when they think of determinism.

    I don't go into detail on the fundamentals because I don't need to, not because I have no appreciation of them. We exist within a threshold of consciousness where we cannot perceive directly a lot of the things you want to talk about. You don't need to talk about macro molecular structure to experience memory or to notice the difference in organisation between a leaf and a rock. That is why I don't start with them. We can talk about them in a purely conceptual and intuitive way. This way includes everyone.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    It also demonstrates here the danger in misuse of term.
    I actually agree with you. But that was your initial confusion. I was specifically not using technical language but normal vague language. When most people say 'Organic' they mean living matter, they don't mean Methane, Hydrocarbons and Organic chemistry. When most people say inertia they are not thinking of Newtons first law very specifically. If we start enforcing this kind of terminology in idle speech we will never get anything said and there will be contradictions between disciplines.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 07-10-2014 at 08:00 AM.
    問「武」。曰:「克。」未達。曰:「勝己之私之謂克。」

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    If you look from the beginning of this post; I add a reference I stumbled upon because I thought it was fun and interesting, about socrates standing still. It is interesting, you don't need qualifications to appreciate it. Then I talked about memory, because it is interesting. Seemingly inert matter does not have memory like life forms do, The causal chain is simpler without memory. A lot of people don't consider this when they think of determinism.
    You start out good but then you double down on the 'stoned college student reconciles metaphysics and the scientific method' rhetorical strategy.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post

    1. Zinc (obviously inorganic)
    Zinc? You think that's zinc? Zinc is an hcp metal. Do you think that looks like a single-species trigonal unit cell? What axis are you looking along?

    It’s cubic viewed along [111] the threefold symmetry axis. This is the zinc-blende structure, a cubic unit cell of zinc sulphide. It's also one of the most basic reference structures. It's probably the threefold symmetry that threw you off (three... hexagonal.... easy mistake to make). Happens to sophmores typically.

    Still, thanks for your answer. Parts of this thread have been very interesting and stimulating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rett2 View Post
    Zinc? You think that's zinc? Zinc is an hcp metal. Do you think that looks like a single-species trigonal unit cell? What axis are you looking along?

    It’s cubic viewed along [111] the threefold symmetry axis. This is the zinc-blende structure, a cubic unit cell of zinc sulphide. It's also one of the most basic reference structures. It's probably the threefold symmetry that threw you off (three... hexagonal.... easy mistake to make). Happens to sophmores typically.

    Still, thanks for your answer. Parts of this thread have been very interesting and stimulating.
    Yes and no. I really just didn't care to go into the detail at this point. ZnS is the most common natural form of Zn, is it not? Wee fun quiz, its been years since I looked at this stuff actually. I'm a biologist, my association with chem is supplementary. Don't give away which element is comprised in another of your images. That'd be no fun for others.
    Last edited by SoCo KungFu; 07-10-2014 at 08:11 AM.

  15. #90
    To be honest, I do think it is the case that memory does affect judgment and causality, I only differ in that I don't think it reduces determinism, but adds elements to causal chains that define it in other ways. Although the object in memory is not "real" (though the electrical impulses and sections of the brain that contain that judgment are real), it is treated as real and may thus be acted upon. We think the bad girlfriend from years past will be fun for one more go, we convince ourselves it will be fine based on old memories, and next thing we know, we have seventy texts a day and a goat's head nailed to our door.

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