Response to the Thai clinch, aka double neck tie

[Pipefighter]

I was having a problem with a particular sparring partner who had impressive skill and strength in tying me up in his Thai clinch. No matter my counter, it fed in to his response. I asked my teacher if he had a good response for that. He told me to use the headlock immediately. It worked very well. So far I have had only success using the headlock in response to the Thai clinch and haven't seen a counter response to the headlock at that moment.
I'm wondering if anybody knows a good counter for when you have applied the clinch, and then are caught with one arm inside the basket of a headlock?

[lkfmdc]

[lkfmdc]

[lkfmdc]

[Pipefighter]

Cool video. I wish i had one to illustrate what my response is, but i don't have video of anything.
In my situation i had used basically every one of those responses, but my training partner was more experienced with MT clinching, and stronger. I initially did the break to a drag by, he of course countered with a drag by and we were back to square one. I broke and did a russian, he rose up and pushed my head down into a front choke. I countered with a MT clinch, then so did he, then so did I untill i was tired and stopped. I tried the snap down, pull, twist method ala JKD/Burmese style, he didnt budge. I simply broke the clinch, but we were back to square one. So after a few days of that my Teacher told me to use the Shuai Chiao headlock immediately. That put an end to MT clinching. Since then i find that when my opponent has full sized gloves on the headlock works even better since he cant get his arm out at all.

I'm wondering, if someone countered your Thai clinch with a headlock, what would your response be from there

[Kellen Bassette]

I'm wondering, if someone countered your Thai clinch with a headlock, what would your response be from there

I think I'll work this when training Thai clinch this week to see how I like it.

[GoldenBrain]

Hey Pipefighter,

I'm not sure if you're talking about a front headlock with arm in or from the side, but here are two methods that you could use to counter those. If from the side, then just step behind with the closest foot and use your inside trapped arm which is in front of the opponent to push them back which will sweep them off their feet. This is one way to apply a single whip in Taiji.

Below is a wrestling technique to deal with a front arm in headlock. The counter starts at about 1:05 into the video.

Personally I like to throw people trying to use a MT clinch on me. Two throws I like are Seoi Nage and a Shuai Chaio pulling throw. If I'm locked in tight then I go right into a wrestling clinch with one hand on the back of the neck and the other on the forearm while bringing my hips forward to stall out the MT clinch, or at the very least to keep me from taking a big knee. I'll use various techniques from there such as what David demonstrates. I also like some of the techniques in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EEx...outu.be&t=1m1s

[GoldenBrain]

About 7 to 8 mins into this video you can see some Seoi Nage throws to counter the MT clinch.

[GoldenBrain]

Here's something I found demonstrating a Shuai Chiao pulling throw.

[Pipefighter]

I wasn't reffering to snapping the guy down into a front headlock. I think if a guy has strong arms there is no way you could pull him down while he has both hands behind your neck. I' talking about a standing headlock, but dont let his hands come loose from your neck. Headlock around his clinch.

The throw in the second video if done in a freestyle match would be called a Jap Wizzer, and the execution was about spot on exactly how a freestyle wrestler would do it. Closer to the 8 min mark in the video the problem with that throw arises. The blue guy pulls and drops, the red guy pushes his hips in and resists and the blue guy falls. I suppose a BJJ guy would be looking for a rear naked at that moment. In Shuai Chiao if he stayed standing and pulled straight over the top of his shoulder that is usually called Bowing. Pulling him around the body is called Pulling.

The Shuai Chiao clip of Pulling is a valid response, but not the one i was referring to. A decent counter to pulling if it is against a MT clinch is to take your left elbow and drive it down into his right shoulder as he tries to break your elbow structure sideways with his shoulder. Turing your wrist outward just a bit at that moment helps to strengthen your structure while he snaps through with his shoulder.
But i still haven't seen a response to the headlock done against a MT clinch

[GoldenBrain]

Cool. I thought you were talking about a standing headlock, but I just wanted to clarify. I'm a bit OCD like that. Since I'm not familiar with using a standing headlock to counter the MT clinch I'd love to see a video of it. I want to make sure I understand it more before I try it out and possibly add it to my bag of tricks. I know you said you don't have one of your own, but maybe you could find and post a clip of somebody else doing it. I looked around for quite a while and couldn't find one. Also, even though you don't have a counter to the standing headlock yet, do you have a follow up once it's acquired? I'm thinking a simple hip toss might be in order.

By the way, if nobody else has said it yet, welcome to the forum!

[Pipefighter]

Thank You! I don't think there are any video's of that on the net. But if one get's made i'll post it if i find it.

And yes, once you get that lock there are a few ways to finish it, depending on your overall intent.

[bawang]

the easiest is bearhug dry hump then reap.

you can also learn how to clinch and make it your own.

[Pipefighter]

I will try and post a pic if i can get one so no one will have to imagine what i'm talking about by description.

With the headlock over a clinch like i mean there would be no way to get to a bear hug. The guys i have used it on are all familiar with a bear hug and strong enough to pull it off. I just don't think that is an option

[bawang]

do u train ur neck good

worst case scenario if u cant out tech him add special exercises address weak muscle groups