Greetings,

bawang, if you are talking about competitive bodybuilding, I agree without doubt. I read in an interview with a natural competitive bodybuilder to define what natural is. He replied that it was anything you could buy over the counter.

I did post up a thread with the pdf of "Massive Muscle Pumping" in this forums some time ago that showed how bodybuilders would nourish back in the good. It was healthy because back then its physical culture roots were still strong. This even extends to sports; back then, a post game antioxidant flush was a quart of orange juice. And this was before we knew about antioxidants.

I wonder how much was paid to have creatine put in the model.

mickey