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Thread: Against "cross training"

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Someone makes the following comments:

    - The "cross training" takes away from concentrating on your core specialty.
    - Being a specialist is quite common in our daily life.

    Most

    - long fist guys cross train praying mantis system.
    - Baji guys cross train Pi Gua system.
    - XingYi guys cross train Taiji system.

    But most WC guys are against the idea of "cross training". Why?
    Francis Fong and his Wing Chun people aren't against cross training. My Muay Thai instructor is a Wing Chun instructor under sifu Fong.

    In fact, I would say most of the Wing Chun people I've ever met cross train in some other martial art. Maybe I haven't been around enough wing chun people.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post

    Ive given up on the BS Takes 10years Kung Fu movement and started to train much more realistically.

    All for use and nothing for show.
    100% agree. Form, in one sense, is an encyclopedia of a system's techniques/approaches. Pulling them out of their and drilling them is an absolute necessity from the start. Form is for those studying the system and carrying on the lineage, not for showing off. If one understands the contents of the form, and has trained them, then the least entertaining thing they could possibly do to showcase their style is the form, versus actually throwing people, seizing, etc.

  3. #18
    kung fu people are often against crosstraining because they see western martial art of their fathers as bullies. but the truth is most people who train "modern" martial arts were also bullied as children. its just taboo in western culture to talk about this things and show weakness, whereas asian martial arts ackowledge that one time you were weak. transformation of a weak scared man into a strong and scary man is a theme of taoist kung fu, related to alchemy and elixir transforming.

    dont confuse ackowleding of your weakness into embracing and celebrating weakness.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    dont confuse ackowleding of your weakness into embracing and celebrating weakness.
    Very well stated. Too many people have to find a reason other than their own training for why results don't match claims, and a lot of people train in order to claim to be something, instead of just becoming what they joined martial arts to be.

    No one joins a martial art to defend the honor of [insert style here].

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Newbie View Post
    Very well stated. Too many people have to find a reason other than their own training for why results don't match claims, and a lot of people train in order to claim to be something, instead of just becoming what they joined martial arts to be.

    No one joins a martial art to defend the honor of [insert style here].
    kung fu people often associate big muscles with arrogance, bullying, and humiliation and pain. they often see kung fu styles like tai chi and wing chun as "one weird trick to defeat big tough guy". this is why they are scared of "cross training". to meet their childhood bully archetypes again. to know that they did not go on to bag groceries and flip burgers, but are successful and power, and still dominate you. skinny efiminate kung fu guys are children of boomers, that was the generation of neglect, lack of love from parents, new age movement erasing european tradition and heritage, and emasculation from feminism. that is why they seek out kung fu to fill that void within themselves.

    you never have to accept what you are. you never have to "just be yourself".
    the theme of kung fu is transformation.
    lifting weights and hitting bags is not "crosstraining". they are "training".
    Last edited by bawang; 07-01-2014 at 08:52 AM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    kung fu people often associate big muscles with arrogance, bullying, and humiliation and pain. they often see kung fu styles like tai chi and wing chun as "one weird trick to defeat big tough guy". this is why they are scared of "cross training". to meet their childhood bully archetypes again. to know that they did not go on to bag groceries and flip burgers, but are successful and power, and still dominate you. skinny efiminate kung fu guys are children of boomers, that was the generation of neglect, lack of love from parents, new age movement erasing european tradition and heritage, and emasculation from feminism. that is why they seek out kung fu to fill that void within themselves.
    I actually see the Western concept of machismo, which is just a slightly different idea of face, as a key part of the problem in much the same way face is a problem for Chinese martial arts in China. Not being able to face one's weaknesses, but having to deny them and respond with a show of strength.

    There are plenty of fit kung fu people who cannot fight very well. Hell, when I was younger in kung fu, I knew a lot of body builders. The only ones who could fight were the ones who trained it, even if some of the others got in a bar fight here and there, that was them picking fights that were really just shows of strength, not testing skills against anyone worth fighting.

    Shows of strength are not always applicable strength.

    the theme of kung fu is transformation.
    lifting weights and hitting bags is not "crosstraining". they are "training".
    Agreed, as is working technique.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    lifting weights and hitting bags is not "crosstraining". they are "training".
    words to live by...

  8. #23
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    Indeed. Kung Fu is a transformative process.
    For the mind and the body.

    I don't know about the spiritual part. I suppose that kind of transformation is different from my point of view and has very little to do with Kung Fu practice in a martial sense.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Dugas View Post
    You need to train how to strike, kick, throw, & grapple. If need be, go learn from others. I agree with many others here that there is nothing wrong with learning from multiple teachers. Look at Master Chang from Shuai Jiao. He spent years learning from different teachers who were experts in different aspects of Shuai Jiao, let alone being cross trained in other systems.

    If you do not train in what you lack, someone who does is going to get you.

    I do not care who tells you that you only need one of the above mentioned skills or half of them.

    If you lack one of these areas, someone who does not will get you.
    Indeed!! This is the philosohy I live by. Well said!!
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    like that old japanese zen monk that grabs white woman student titties to awaken them to zen, i grab titties of kung fu people to awaken them to truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sal Canzonieri View Post
    You can discuss discrepancies and so on in people's posts without ripping them apart. So easy to do sitting behind a computer screen anonymously, but in person I'm sure you'd be very different, unless you're a total misanthrope without any friends.

  10. #25
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    As I once state din another thread, the main issue that some CLAIM to have with cross training is the whole silliness of "jack of all trades, master of none".
    The reality is that has ZERO to do with it because the TRADE is fighting.
    Let me say it again, the TRADE of MA is FIGHTING.
    For a MA that is a striker to training in a different MA ( perhaps grappling) to perfect his fighting skill is comparable to a welder that is proficient in TIG welding training in MIG to be a better welder.
    The trade is welding, the cross training is in different TYPES of welding.
    The trade we do is fighting and the cross training is in different TYPES of fighting.
    When we cross training in the aspects that are not prioritized in out base MA (like grappling is not prioritized in WC for example) we are MASTERING our trade (fighting) because we are become proficient in ALL aspects of our trade.
    No one is a master welder if he only knows ONE method of welding.
    No one is a master MA if he knows only ONE aspect of the MA.

    To cross train is to become a master in the trade that is Martial Arts.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  11. #26
    I like that analogy SR, well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  12. #27
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    Paul is spot on as always!
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    As I once state din another thread, the main issue that some CLAIM to have with cross training is the whole silliness of "jack of all trades, master of none".
    The reality is that has ZERO to do with it because the TRADE is fighting.
    Hey, I said that!

    You owe me a dollar. Or a Canadian dollar.

    Nitz that, I'm old school. I want a beaver pelt.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Newbie View Post
    Hey, I said that!

    You owe me a dollar. Or a Canadian dollar.

    Nitz that, I'm old school. I want a beaver pelt.
    I am pretty sure I said it, I've been saying it since about 2002, LOL !
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I am pretty sure I said it, I've been saying it since about 2002, LOL !
    Chronology and history is clearly just a desperate gambit to steal my thunder.

    It is a great analogy (that I apparently stole from you, beaver pelt is in the mail).

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