From Victory to the Hung 洪勝 to Great Victory 鸿勝

[hskwarrior]

Joseph,

I never used to think you are stupid until now. I even give you credit for driving me to discover the things I have.
You yourself have claimed that "GREEN GRASS" was Monk Choy Fook's buddhist name.
You yourself claimed that Ba Pai San didn't exist because you looked for it.
You yourself claimed that Hung Victory was and would never have been used by my elders.
YOU yourself have claimed that Cheung Hung Sing only started training with Chan Heung in 1867.
YOU yourself have claimed that Chan Heung sent Cheung Hung Sing to Fut San.

and ONLY you yourself believe your own lies.
Not me. I will never believe your lies and I will never stop telling the truth about my lineage.

IF i were YOU, i'd get my facts in order and stop spreading lies like you all have been doing. For example, Choy Fook learned from Jue Yuan Monk (觉远上人), Yi Guan Monk (一贯禅师), and Li Sou (李叟). The fact that you have overlooked the HUGE age gap between these two alleged teachers of Choy Fook existed Hundreds of years before Choy Fook was even born.
You don't know if Chan Yuen Wu taught Hung Gar, Shaolin Kung Fu, Hung Fut, or Fut Gar. Your stories have changed with the seasons. You're not even sure what temple, city, or place he came from.

You guys now claim "Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut" when you know **** well Chan Heung created CLF, Cheung Hung Sing is the Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut and Tam Sam is Buk Sing Choy Lee Fut. you guys are shaming Chan Heung.

You are so shady that when you claim Cheung Hung Sing wasn't the first "Hung Sing" in Fut San and say Chan Din Foon was the first, you know its just a PLAY ON WORDS. Cheung Hung Sing's Hung Sing name is not the same as Chan Heung's Hung Sing name strictly by definition alone. "Hung Victory" and Holy Sage or Great Sage doesn't mean the same thing, they're apples and oranges. but you play on the hope of people not knowing the difference between the two names.

You can't claim Chan Heung chose the Hung Sheng name because of his alleged connection to the Hung Mun because he was not involved with any revolutions until the Opium war and after that he got involved with Chen Song allegedly. That was in the 1840's to the 1850's and CLF was established in 1836. Your hung sing name is in regards to a government official who got made a saint. Our hung sing is in regards to a mission and purpose. therefore, they are not one and the same, nor are they related to each other. So that disproves that "all Hung Sing are one family". Another play on words there. All Hung Sheng "洪聖" are one family" is only intended for those schools that use the Hung Sheng (洪聖-Holy Sage), not Cheung Hung Sing's Hung Sing (洪勝/鴻勝 - Hung/Great Victory).

First of all, "天下洪圣是一家" (All Hung Sing is one family) is borrowed from Hung Mun's slogan "天下洪門是一家" (All Hung Mun is one family). Therefore, with intended repetition, Hung Sing (洪聖) is in reference to both a Deity's Temple and to Emperor Hung Wu. The Temple has nothing to do with the Hung Mun. Hung Wu, is not a member, but, is at the forefront of the Hung Mun society. Hung Wu could be likened to a patron Saint to the society. not even Chan Koon pak's Heroic Victory (雄勝) ) is related to (洪聖). NOT AT ALL

Go ahead, jump up and down claiming cheung hung sing didn't use this name 洪勝 - Hung Victory. It doesn't mean you are correct, but you're entitled to believe your own lies if you wish. me, i saw past your misinformation a LOOOOOOOOONG time ago.

took you long enough to respond. you're getting pretty old now, i understand.

[hskwarrior]

Come to think of it, whoever told you Luoding is Ba Pai has a wicked sense of humor, because Luofu, where Choy Fok came from, means "everything is undetermined (floating)", whereas Luoding means "everything is determined (settled)".

that's a LAME effing attempt to twist the truth. One, i NEVER said Ba Pai Mountain IS also called LUODING. That's YOUR non comprehension of english.

However, I DID say that the Ba Pai Mountain is found inside LOUDING, which is just on the outskirts of Guangxi. I know you saw the pictures i posted of Ba Pai San. The CIRCLE was to indicate where the Ba Pai San was in comparison to Mt. Loufu. 200 + miles away.

1) There is no way Jeung Ah-Yim and his students would use the name "Victory to Hung Men" Hung Sing for their school, they would have been persecuted right on the spot by the Ching government.

Hence the MANY times Cheung Yim's Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon was forced to close down. If the Hung Victory Tong could exist during that period why wouldn't it exist for Cheung Hung Sing? because you say so? LMAO. Even a news paper article featuring Tam Sam mentions their school using this 洪勝 name.

What you REALLY should be trying to explain is how Monk Choy Fook was able to learn from Jiu Yan and Li Sou when these two people existed in the 13th century and part of the Yuan Dynasty. If you are going to make the claim that Choy Fook learned from these too people, EXPLAIN THE 300+ YEAR GAP between them and monk choy fook?

How about this piece on information: (no disrespect intended to the people who posted it, just using it as an example) Choy Fook was a Shaolin monk and refugee from the southern Shaolin temple in Fukien. Choy Fook was also known as Lantau Fook, or “broken head” Fook, due to the injuries he sustained while escaping the southern Shaolin temple in the onslaught of the Qing troops. Most attribute the Fut Jerng or “Buddha palm” technique to Choy Fook. The final of Chan Heung’s three teachers, Choy Fook instructed Chan for ten years. At the conclusion of his study, Chan was asked by Choy Fook to call his style Hung Sing paying homage and showing allegiance to the anti government secret societies that once took refuge at the southern Shaolin temple.

[extrajoseph]

However, I DID say that the Ba Pai Mountain is found inside LOUDING, which is just on the outskirts of Guangxi. I know you saw the pictures i posted of Ba Pai San. [B]The CIRCLE was to indicate where the Ba Pai San was in comparison to Mt. Loufu. 200 + miles away.

If Ba Pai Shan is to be found in Luoding, please do identify the location for us on a map.

What you REALLY should be trying to explain is how Monk Choy Fook was able to learn from Jiu Yan and Li Sou when these two people existed in the 13th century and part of the Yuan Dynasty. If you are going to make the claim that Choy Fook learned from these too people, EXPLAIN THE 300+ YEAR GAP between them and monk choy fook?

Choy Fook was from Shaolin Temple, it has a long history of different masters passing down their art from generations before, it is not meant to be literal, that explains the time gap. You'll need to read Chinese history from a Chinese perspective.

The truth about your lineage should have been documented by your elders, please give us the source to support your claims.

[hskwarrior]

If Ba Pai Shan is to be found in Luoding, please do identify the location for us on a map.

I posted actual photo's of the Ba Pai San. I don't need to locate it for YOU. You can do the same searching I did.

[hskwarrior]

Choy Fook was from Shaolin Temple, it has a long history of different masters passing down their art from generations before, it is not meant to be literal, that explains the time gap. You'll need to read Chinese history from a Chinese perspective.

Don't go around telling people that one or two of Choy Fook's teachers were..... but existed hundreds of years before Choy Fook was ever born. I might start telling people that Jesus is my first cousin.

[hskwarrior]

The truth about your lineage should have been documented by your elders, please give us the source to support your claims.

Chan Yiu Chi didn't start documenting until the 1960's. We've been in the USA since the 1920's. Lau Bun's sigung was Cheung Hung Sing and he knew the history and passed it down to my sigung Jew Leong. And the 1970's Chan Heung memorial association booklet is filled with inaccuracies as they scrambled to compile information. I'm going to trust my lineage long before I trust you and your misleadings.

[hskwarrior]

The truth about your lineage should have been documented by your elders, please give us the source to support your claims.

ALL of my elders going back to the Choy Lee Fut co-founder Cheung Hung Sing were all members of the Hung Mun. Unlike Chan Heung, who was never a member, only a supporter.

They were all very very active with revolution after revolution. They weren't interested in documenting history, they were LIVING IT. They were secret society men. Secrecy was paramount in their day and age.
and if you think hardcore secret society men were going to get caught with literature that could mean their death, you're severely mistaken.

today, you can do a youtube search on the Wah Ching and the only thing you will find is the stupid current generations identifying themselves via video for all the cops to see. But why don't you see anything at all on the original Wah Ching online? you see almost any other gang online, histories and all that today. You still won't find pics of the originals? why? they knew how to keep stuff secret. period. Did it mean they were not wah ching's because there are no pics available of the original group? Do you know who was a Wah Ching? the son of Kwan Tak Hing. And I have pics to back that up. look for it online, you won't find it. It's even on my facebook page. but you won't know where to find it because i respect their need for secrecy. why did i post it to FB? I was asked to.

to conclude, Chan Heung had the time on his hands to document whatever he did. Cheung Hung Sing didn't have that luxury of time. he was busy making history. Which would explain why Cheung Hung Sing is called one of southern China's greatest fighters. try all you like Jo Jo o' boy. but be forewarned, it won't work.

[hskwarrior]

now SOME of chan heung's grand students were involved with the Hung Mun and one of Sun Yat Sen's close friends was a Choy Lee Fut guy





WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE LEE YAU SAN?????



AND WHY DOES LEE YAU SAN LOOK LIKE CHAN YUEN WU?????

[extrajoseph]

Frank,

It is very nice of you to show us these pictures and map but you have to give us the source where they come from, otherwise we have no means to verify. Don't be like your hero Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow, who used the Hung Men to cover up his wicked deeds and in the process harmed its reputation. In your case, it looks like you are using the Hung Men archive to twist the facts to fit your fantasy about CLF history. We are getting older and older each year, time for you to grow up.

XJ

[hskwarrior]

Frank,

It is very nice of you to show us these pictures and map but you have to give us the source where they come from, otherwise we have no means to verify. Don't be like your hero Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow, who used the Hung Men to cover up his wicked deeds and in the process harmed its reputation. In your case, it looks like you are using the Hung Men archive to twist the facts to fit your fantasy about CLF history. We are getting older and older each year, time for you to grow up.

what's wrong with YOUR fingers old man? If i can find it, you can find it. See, how retarded you are? You mistakenly assume my Dai Gor is my hero. You again, assume you know something but you don't know raymond. he didn't get busted committing any crimes. The image of our tong is spotless because the TONG wasn't part of any crimes. Our tong is not on trial and we are still operating smoothly even tho raymond is locked up. And, my hung mun archives provides more realistic answers than you could ever dream up.

Your people are NOW....TODAY ......trying to link themselves with the Hung Mun. But don't be mad, I will teach you all the things you didn't know and you won't have to call me sifu.

[hskwarrior]

Time to grow up? Did I invite you to my party? NO. YOU gate crashed with all of your insecurities. Because honestly, I'm not worried one bit about your misleading attempts. You can say anything you want but no one will believe you. I am very secure with what I know historically. So i don't feel the need to argue with you.

[extrajoseph]

If you are secured about your history then why are you not able to give out your sources? You have been researching for years now, yet there are no credible clues we can follow.

[extrajoseph]

Consequently we can only assume you have made them up.

[hskwarrior]

If you are secured about your history then why are you not able to give out your sources? You have been researching for years now, yet there are no credible clues we can follow.

Who are YOU that i have to provide YOU sources here on THIS forum? However, in the bibliography of my book i provide sources i've researched.

Consequently we can only assume you have made them up.

Consequently, I don't give a #@!# what YOU think. YOU are one of the BIGGEST LIARS in all of choy lee fut.

[extrajoseph]

Now now Frank calm down, looks like again you cannot provide us with any creditable evidence to support your claims. That is OK, we know this already. You have a nice weekend.
XJ