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Thread: Throws you often find useful in your wing chun

  1. #16
    Another example, and one I really like, is the one in this video at around the 40 second+ mark.


  2. #17
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    Uh, duh, hello, Paddington... both of those videos have already been posted.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Yeah definitely the foot sweep. But it's not wing chun [...]
    Now this is the thing isn't it? I've not met PB, not heard him make a comment but there is a bit where when asked what he thought about cross training with say BJJ he said;

    Quote Originally Posted by Bayer2012
    To attain combat proficiency in Ving Tsun, you have to train very hard, to keep this level even harder... there is no time for implementing other ideas
    So, given what I've seen of the videos I have to say yes, perhaps PB does see sweeps and trips in his wing chun.

    To move the thread on, I always enjoy watching Wang Zhi Peng using trips, sweeps, throws and takedowns. I particularly enjoy watching his use of the dummy.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Uh, duh, hello, Paddington... both of those videos have already been posted.
    Well, I was writting my post and linking to the videos as you must have been doing yours. At one point my post was directly after Graham's then by the time I posted the second one, becasue I discovered that I don't have permission to post more than one embedded video, it shifted and appeared after yours. Such is the thing with forum boards. No need for the duh IMO.

    Plus, they were precisely the videos I had in mind when I commented earlier on in the thread.
    Last edited by Paddington; 07-10-2014 at 08:06 AM.

  5. #20
    Thanks for including the chart of the judo throws, made it a bit easier, as some I remember by name, not all.

    And yes, any take downs/trips is fair game for the topic.

    Some of the throws Paddington mentioned, or at least my style's equivalents, are also one's I have found useful.

  6. #21
    You see this is the problem. People look at video clips of Bayer and try to second guess what he is doing without actually being there or having him explain things properly.

    It's normal these days.

    If I was you Paddington I would give up on the whole PB assumption thing.

    He's tripped me up many a time and there is a good reason for it and he also explains why this circling foot sweep idea that many people think is in Bil Jee is not a good idea.

    Stop trying to draw conclusions from video footage FFS!
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  7. #22
    ........................and BTW Bayer is not fighting in those videos. He would tell you (if you were there) that he is just playing. He also pays attention to correcting peoples errors hence the reason why he will kick your leg away if you balance or structure has gone to sh1t!
    "Ving Tsun is a horse not everybody can ride"

    Wong Shun Leung.

  8. #23
    Circling foot sweeps against decent people have less to do with structure problems, and more to do with attacking during a weight transition. There is no way around the fact that weight transitions have to happen, and they create opportunities for throws and sweeps, thus, moving with cover, but which cover you use creates other opportunities against you.

  9. #24
    Well, Graham, I was not just referring to circle stepping with respects to Bayer or what I do.

    I think the only way I would be convinced otherwise, that there are no sweeps or trips in his wing chun, would be if he said so or one of his authorised most senior students said so.

    That's not a demand for them to say anything but more pointing out that you are neither of them and that basing my opinion on video footage, is not really to make 'big assumptions'. That's just my opinion.

    But anyway, I find little trips and sweeps the most useful. That may change with future training.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    He also pays attention to correcting peoples errors hence the reason why he will kick your leg away if you balance or structure has gone to sh1t!
    And why would that be a bad thing to capitalize on in fighting? It's not the backward, circling foot thing, just a little scoop of their leg in conjunction with the hands. Works well and is uncompromising to oneself.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    You see this is the problem. People look at video clips of Bayer and try to second guess what he is doing without actually being there or having him explain things properly.
    I agree with you. Video clips out of context can be very misleading. Graham, if you can clarify things that would actually be helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    ...he also explains why this circling foot sweep idea that many people think is in Bil Jee is not a good idea.

    Actually, I have had pretty good success (when the situation permits) using the Huen-bo/circle-step to sweep and throw an opponent. I've also had good results counter-throwing some people who attempt that move on me. Maybe that is one reason why it may not be such a great idea? Done improperly or in the wrong situation it can compromise your structure and balance.

    Regardless, I would be the first to point out that sweeping is not the main intent of the huen-bo movement as I have been taught it. In fact, I would not seek to define any of the movements in the forms in terms of applications. There is a difference between seeing a movement in a particular application and mistakenly thinking that the application is why we do the movement.
    Last edited by Grumblegeezer; 07-10-2014 at 08:31 AM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    . He also pays attention to correcting peoples errors hence the reason why he will kick your leg away if you balance or structure has gone to sh1t!
    Sounds like a perfect time to trip someone up in a fight as well to me! Maybe if you stopped defending other people's methods, you may see that the foot sweep, even by your own words, isn't such a horrible thing given the correct situation? For me, if I have an efficient tool that takes advantage of someone's unbalanced gravity or poor structure, I'm going to use it.

    FWIW, we have foot sweep in the opening of our SNT form. While I personally don't focus my training on them often, I've had several times where they are the best option to take advantage of an opponent's positions and balance in sparring, playing around, etc. I would prefer to use low line kicks to get the job done, but there are times where facing and positions don't allow kicks, but the sweep is right there for the taking!
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Yeah definitely the foot sweep. But it's not wing chun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug9_rymsEic

    Seth's pretty good at these. He's got variations of it he's worked on and taught a bunch of people. Variations like the gravitron 3000, the bully, the lone wolf. They work pretty well. He is a bit ****y naming stuff like that as a purple belt, but one of my friends did guillotine choke him in about 20 sec at the last tournament after he was a bit too dedicated to this approach so it's all good. Seth has showed me all of these and they are very legit. That video is Seth basically KO'ing somebody at the Pans this year. The guy hits his head and is dazed. Seth on the ground there tells the guy "I know you're almost out - just tap out" and the guy did. This was a non striking grappling tournament to the uneducated. Just shows the potential.
    I really like this clip. No, not 'WC' due to a multiple of reasons, but I really appreciate his '2-point control' by simultaneously manipulating both the head and the leg (ankle/knee) for the take down!
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Sounds like a perfect time to trip someone up in a fight as well to me! Maybe if you stopped defending other people's methods, you may see that the foot sweep, even by your own words, isn't such a horrible thing given the correct situation? For me, if I have an efficient tool that takes advantage of someone's unbalanced gravity or poor structure, I'm going to use it.
    Total agreement.
    "No contaban con mi astucia!" --el Chapulin Colorado

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    There are throws in the WCK system???????????

    Where??
    And yet if I got the chance to throw someone in a fight, he would get thrown...The real question is are you fighting or doing wing chun?
    Last edited by trubblman; 07-10-2014 at 10:29 AM.

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