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Thread: Throws you often find useful in your wing chun

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    ...others blamed WSL for using a non-Wing Chun movement when he kneed someone in the head? He countered saying he used the principle of nearest weapon to the nearest target. So, not doing foot sweeps because they aren't found in the forms I think is expecting there to be applications in the forms, at least in the sense that they contain all attacks we'd use. I think that's looking at it incorrectly.

    But also, there's no need to relate something we did in sparring or fighting back to something in the forms in order to work on it. We can simply incorporate foot sweeps into various partner drills and just train it like that.
    LFJ: your story about WSL using a knee to the head when it fit WC principles is a great example of divergent thinking.

    Now regarding throws, there are times when the huen bo or circle steps from Biu Tze and the yap ghurk or inserting step from the dummy so displace your opponent's center that he will be literally knocked over as a "by product" of basic stance and steps. In such circumstances a throw is often a natural and efficient follow up. Sort of like that knee to the head. Or, since your opponent's structure and balance is so compromised, you might just prefer to punch the heck out of him. Either way fits my definition of WC.
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  2. #47
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    Last edited by kung fu fighter; 07-12-2014 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #48
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    If "foot sweep" works for you, you should train it. If "foot sweep" is not in your forms, you should just add it into your form. This way, the future WC generation won't have to go through this argument again.

    In long fist, I had replaced a

    - "360 degree backward foot sweep" with a "TKD spin hook kick".
    - "jumping kick" with a "MT flying knee".

    This way, the future long fist generation will say that long fist system also have the "spin hook kick" and "flying knee". This is what I'll call, "Whatever that you have, if I like it, it will be mine."
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumblegeezer View Post
    LFJ: your story about WSL using a knee to the head when it fit WC principles is a great example of divergent thinking.

    Now regarding throws, there are times when the huen bo or circle steps from Biu Tze and the yap ghurk or inserting step from the dummy so displace your opponent's center that he will be literally knocked over as a "by product" of basic stance and steps. In such circumstances a throw is often a natural and efficient follow up. Sort of like that knee to the head. Or, since your opponent's structure and balance is so compromised, you might just prefer to punch the heck out of him. Either way fits my definition of WC.
    I agree in some instances stepping can be used to effectively take someone's feet out from under them, along with some good punching or po-paai, but that's quite different from, say, a hip toss.

  5. #50
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    My lineage's dummy forms have a number of throws and sweeps therein. They are not "hidden", by any stretch.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    My lineage's dummy forms have a number of throws and sweeps therein. They are not "hidden", by any stretch.
    When you say "throw" what does that actually mean? I think sweeping or otherwise knocking someone down isn't a "throw". I can't even imagine where a throw would be in any dummy form I've seen.

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    When you say "throw" what does that actually mean? I think sweeping or otherwise knocking someone down isn't a "throw". I can't even imagine where a throw would be in any dummy form I've seen.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What you have "seen"- maybe your small world laced with sarcasm in some of your posts.

    Forms done well shows mastery of wing chun motions. Good mastery of wing chun

    can result in showing the way to the classic TCMA functions- strike, defend, break, throw
    and chi-na.


    For throws- ome can do them when the opportunity is there-one does not force them

  8. #53
    [QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1273549]If "foot sweep" works for you, you should train it. If "foot sweep" is not in your forms, you should just add it into your form. This way, the future WC generation won't have to go through this argument again-----------------------------\\-------------------------------------

    ------------------------------------
    Foot sweeps are there in the wing chun that I do. When you maintain balance and proper coordination you(generic you)
    can un balance and throw other people if the opportunity is better than for an immediate punch. Strikes van be followups.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    What you have "seen"- maybe your small world laced with sarcasm in some of your posts.
    Don't start.

    I haven't told anyone there are no throws in their dummy forms, only that I can't imagine where. Instead of being condescending you could give an example.

    Good mastery of wing chun can result in showing the way to the classic TCMA functions- strike, defend, break, throw and chi-na.
    So do you have obvious throwing techniques in your forms? If so, where?

    When I say throw, I'm not thinking sweeping, tripping, or otherwise knocking down, but actually throwing the opponent shuaijiao style or so.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by HybridWarrior View Post
    Often times, this forum and its "discussions" degrade due to us having varying definitions of a term or motion...
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No problem with differences in definitions. The tyrrany of words.
    If one is on the receiving end of some wing chun motions--- one can end up on the floor, against a wall or other possible disconnects.
    Ip man in a challege match flung his adversary witha lop sao from a stage.(see Ip Ching's book about his father.
    A Chinese girl friend of a student of mine saw Ip man at her father's house where her father used to take
    privates from IM. Some tkd guys came and challenged IM. IM threw them all over the place.

  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [...]

    Forms done well shows mastery of wing chun motions. Good mastery of wing chun

    can result in showing the way to the classic TCMA functions- strike, defend, break, throw
    and chi-na.



    For throws- ome can do them when the opportunity is there-one does not force them
    I very much agree with this point but think that it can be a two way process; that is having experience elsewhere, whether in classic TCMA functions or otherwise, can sometimes help show the way to mastery of wing chun motions.

    Joy, would you care to share your experience and give us an example of both a throw and a chi na movement that you can see in your forms in terms of practicing the motion?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    Foot sweeps are there in the wing chun that I do.
    Which one are you talking about?

    The one that you use your "inner foot edge" to sweep in front of your opponent's "instep"? This is a "circular" foot sweep.

    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 07-13-2014 at 12:57 PM.
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  13. #58
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    or the one that you use your "instep" to sweep at the back of your opponent's "ankle"? This is a "linear" foot sweep.

    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 07-13-2014 at 12:52 PM.
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  14. #59
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    Here is what Hawkins Cheung says about what is and what is not in VT

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    There are throws in the WCK system???????????

    Where??
    "Wing chun requires that the mental be ahead of the physical. It is a system to develop skill, not a style.
    ...When wing chun is trained to a high level, there are no techniques." - Hawkins Cheung.

    So who can say what is and what is not in VT? If you know throws ( and I dont see why anyone who calls himself a Kung Fu practitioner does not know at least one throw ) then you can use throws.
    Last edited by trubblman; 07-13-2014 at 12:50 PM.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Which one are you talking about?

    The one that you use your "inner foot edge" to sweep in front of your opponent's "instep"? This is a "circular" foot sweep.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's not shuai chao- it's a wing chun foot motion.

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