Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 79

Thread: Bruce Lee vs. Gary Elms

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    And think about this. We are posting on a forum that is primarily Traditional Kung Fu. We have no problems believing the legends that abound with this stuff, often sight on seen. Or Master whoever was the most feared kung fu guy in his time only to to find it was all forms stuff. We've all seen that old footage of those 2 Masters that got in the ring to fight and they flat out SUCKED! Yet, here we have on film a guy doing things better than we have yet to see someone else obtain in many ways.

    He never fought anyone , he sucked! LOL.

    Most fighters after they hang it up. SUCK. They die broke, injured some brain damaged and few remember them unless they were champs. Guess what. 99.9 percent never become champs. They are long forgotten other than maybe being a local hero or terror. And we could say if your local boy never makes to the top, HE SUCKS! Which probably is not true.

    One thing I know is BL did not suck. Ive seen it on film. If he lived he would not have died broke. He would have more than likely become the richest actor alive during the 70's and maybe into the 80's. Yet if I put him in the ring with even a third rate heavy weight and said only boxing rules, he is dead! So I guess he sucks then? If I put any of you in that ring, I bet you'll suck too.

    Me, Im smart enough to not get in there with a guy that big even if I believe I am the better boxer. I'd be killed. I SUCK!
    Well, Bruce was certainly not an advocate of traditional martial arts. Most of us don't believe legends and such and regard them as allegory or metaphor to a larger lesson to be had, as they usually are that. Fighters come and go. We've all seen the kung fu and tai chi guy get tangled in the face game, yes. repeatedly thanks to some here. lol

    The fact stands that Bruce didn't compete on an even amateur level in any type of full contact fighting.

    Many fighters don't suck at all after hanging it up, but to everything there is a season. And most fighters have something to hang up when they are done. Movies are not real life and scenes are repeated over and over and over again. Camera angles are used and trust me, at no time was anyone on a martial arts movie set ever in danger of getting knocked out or into an actual fight while working on a film.

    Making it to the top is not relevant to one being a fighter. One is that, or is not that. Pretty cut and dried. Bruce did make cool films with kung fu in them. That, he was indeed good at. I really enjoyed the Big Boss (Fists of Fury) and Enter the Dragon. Really good films in the MA genre and they still stand up today for people interested in the genre.

    Bruce was an actor who used martial arts as part of his repertoire. Let him have that and there isn't any need to inflate his career into something it wasn't.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    809
    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Anyway, JUDO. There was a time it was not under one umbrella. There are still small schools whose linage avoided joining yet they still teach good judo.
    Care to back that up with sources?
    "I'm a highly ranked officer of his tong. HE is the Dragon Head. our BOSS. our LEADER. the Mountain Lord." - hskwarrior

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Bruce Lee trained some martial arts. But was more interested in movies. With the popularity of action martial arts films, that is where Bruce Lee made himself.

    Nobody will give you credit for things you didn't do. Whether or not he was on track is irrelevant. The truth is that BL was never a carded fighter and had no interest in pursuing a fight career. He was clearly into making movies and becoming a super star and martial arts was his vehicle towards that. That was his thing.
    He was serious about Martial Arts before he got involved in major films. Remember that he was a Martial Arts instructor with only small time childhood acting experience before he got discovered. Certainly he doesn't deserve credit for things he didn't do like professional fighting but I think he had the tools to be a competent fighter even if he didn't prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Well, Bruce was certainly not an advocate of traditional martial arts. Most of us don't believe legends and such and regard them as allegory or metaphor to a larger lesson to be had, as they usually are that. Fighters come and go. We've all seen the kung fu and tai chi guy get tangled in the face game, yes. repeatedly thanks to some here. lol

    The fact stands that Bruce didn't compete on an even amateur level in any type of full contact fighting.

    Many fighters don't suck at all after hanging it up, but to everything there is a season. And most fighters have something to hang up when they are done. Movies are not real life and scenes are repeated over and over and over again. Camera angles are used and trust me, at no time was anyone on a martial arts movie set ever in danger of getting knocked out or into an actual fight while working on a film.

    Making it to the top is not relevant to one being a fighter. One is that, or is not that. Pretty cut and dried. Bruce did make cool films with kung fu in them. That, he was indeed good at. I really enjoyed the Big Boss (Fists of Fury) and Enter the Dragon. Really good films in the MA genre and they still stand up today for people interested in the genre.

    Bruce was an actor who used martial arts as part of his repertoire. Let him have that and there isn't any need to inflate his career into something it wasn't.
    Well don't forget the Boxing tournament in Hong Kong which is the real topic of the thread (evidence for Gary Elms) not Bruce Lee's overall fighting ability. Let's try to stay on topic please.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Quote Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay View Post
    He was serious about Martial Arts before he got involved in major films. Remember that he was a Martial Arts instructor with only small time childhood acting experience before he got discovered. Certainly he doesn't deserve credit for things he didn't do like professional fighting but I think he had the tools to be a competent fighter even if he didn't prove it.



    Well don't forget the Boxing tournament in Hong Kong which is the real topic of the thread (evidence for Gary Elms) not Bruce Lee's overall fighting ability. Let's try to stay on topic please.
    He was more serious about competition dancing actually and was a top notch cha-cha dancer in the USA and Hong Kong. He did take up Wing Chun under Ip Mans senior student and did get some lessons with Ip man himself but never did complete or become senior in that style. He got really serious about martial arts when he deduced the vacuum of martial arts films and got into it in the US.

    the boxing tournament is absolutely debatable. He was decidedly not a trained boxer.

    Why not just be happy with what he left us instead of trying to elevate and elevate to the point of absurdity? He did some great stuff. Enjoy that! It was more than enough from one guy.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Why not just be happy with what he left us instead of trying to elevate and elevate to the point of absurdity? He did some great stuff. Enjoy that! It was more than enough from one guy.
    You say that, yet you peppered your comment with suppositions.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,900
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Camera angles are used and trust me, at no time was anyone on a martial arts movie set ever in danger of getting knocked out or into an actual fight while working on a film.
    Actually, yes and no.

    Yes, movie fighting and real fighting (whether on the street or in competition) are entirely different animals. However, screen fighting does carry inherent risks and dangers...ask Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, etc., and anyone who's worked with them, especially during the 1980s, when hard contact was a normal part of the choreography. Mark Houghton, Cynthia Rothrock, Yukari Ohshima, Conan Lee, and countless others who worked in HK films could attest to that. Benny Urquidez stated that while working on his first film, Force:Five, a third-rate American MA movie, he felt it was far more dangerous (to himself) than his actual fights were, due to the nature of filming as opposed to spontaneously reacting during a match.

    Of course, during BL's era, screen fights relied mainly on camera angles than actual contact.

    Sorry OP for going further OT.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 02-25-2015 at 09:31 AM.

  7. #67
    Greetings,

    I agree with Jimbo in that there was and is always a danger; and, maybe even more so today because the actors do not have the martial foundation. The danger may have been such as to give rise to what I call the "signature choreography" associated with certain actors where they practically do the same thing in every movie--the difference being the camera angles, sets, and props.

    Back on topic: It seems that there will be people fascinated with Bruce Lee and those who try to reduce him to rubble. MysticNinjaJay is on his own odyssey, one that many of us have taken in our own lives, Bruce Lee or otherwise. I wish him the best.


    mickey

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    He was more serious about competition dancing actually and was a top notch cha-cha dancer in the USA and Hong Kong. He did take up Wing Chun under Ip Mans senior student and did get some lessons with Ip man himself but never did complete or become senior in that style. He got really serious about martial arts when he deduced the vacuum of martial arts films and got into it in the US.
    He did win a Cha-Cha dance competition in Hong Kong but also the Boxing tournament. It's not clear whether he liked dancing or Martial Arts more. I think he liked both and used some of his dancing skills to enhance fight choreography when he got in to movies. But remember that when Bruce Lee arrived in America he didn't come here to be a movie star. He studied philosophy in college and made money teaching his own brand of Kung Fu. He got discovered as an actor after doing demonstrations at Martial Arts seminars. By the time he auditioned for the Green Hornet Bruce Lee was a very serious Martial Artist. That was the focus of his life up to that point then came the movies in China and breaking in to Hollywood before his untimely death.

    the boxing tournament is absolutely debatable. He was decidedly not a trained boxer.
    I don't know what there is to debate. He trained for the tournament and won. He wasn't a professional Boxer but he did compete in competition.

    Why not just be happy with what he left us instead of trying to elevate and elevate to the point of absurdity? He did some great stuff. Enjoy that! It was more than enough from one guy.
    I'm not trying to elevate him to anything. I'm trying to discover more about the real Bruce Lee and this Gary Elms situation is part of the story.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Quote Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay View Post
    I'm trying to discover more about the real Bruce Lee and this Gary Elms situation is part of the story.
    Hate to go here, but: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...t=67615&page=3
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,900
    I remember sometime in the early '80s seeing a photo in a magazine that (purportedly) showed BL fighting in a HK boxing tournament in the late '50s. I don't know who the opponent was, or even if the opponent was Chinese or white. As I recall, in the photo, "BL" was slightly hunched, back against the ropes, and looked to be "wailing away" at his surging opponent. "BL's" face was down and slightly turned towards the camera, one eye squeezed shut, face grimacing. At the time, I couldn't honestly say whether it was BL in the photo or not, though it could have been.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    I've read that thread before. I'm trying to do some what of the same thing here with the search for Gary Elms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I remember sometime in the early '80s seeing a photo in a magazine that (purportedly) showed BL fighting in a HK boxing tournament in the late '50s. I don't know who the opponent was, or even if the opponent was Chinese or white. As I recall, in the photo, "BL" was slightly hunched, back against the ropes, and looked to be "wailing away" at his surging opponent. "BL's" face was down and slightly turned towards the camera, one eye squeezed shut, face grimacing. At the time, I couldn't honestly say whether it was BL in the photo or not, though it could have been.
    This may be the photo you are talking about:



    That doesn't look like Bruce Lee to me but it's supposed to be from that tournament.
    Last edited by MysticNinjaJay; 02-25-2015 at 12:24 PM.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    CA, USA
    Posts
    4,900
    Quote Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay View Post
    I've read that thread before. I'm trying to do some what of the same thing here with the search for Gary Elms.



    This may be the photo you are talking about:



    That doesn't look like Bruce Lee to me but it's supposed to be from that tournament.
    Yeah, that looks like the photo. A tiny bit different from how I remembered, but that's it. And no, it doesn't look like BL.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canada!
    Posts
    23,110
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Yeah, that looks like the photo. A tiny bit different from how I remembered, but that's it. And no, it doesn't look like BL.
    Maybe it's that Bruce Li guy.
    Or Bruce Lei?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    Care to back that up with sources?
    Not really buddy. I don't care to search for all the crap I read over the years. But, yes there are schools that teach Judo and are not affiliated with any popular sanctioning organization. I think I read prior to in the 1940's anyway that there was no agreed upon ranking system in the US. Not all those clubs joined up. I think maybe because judo and jujitsu were so closey intertwined. Perhaps some did not want to go along with being told how to do things and how to judge rank.

    Remember when Kano started his school he wanted all the jujitsu's under one roof. Sport Judo as we know it was but a small faction of that school. And in America is was probably more jujitsu based than sportive at first. After WW2 that changed. Some guys here did not want to go along with it I guess. Probably the same happened in Japan and elsewhere.

    By the way, feel free to correct me if I am ever wrong. I wont take offence. I don't mind learning or being corrected. Thanks.
    Last edited by boxerbilly; 02-25-2015 at 01:42 PM.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    555
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    He did take up Wing Chun under Ip Mans senior student and did get some lessons with Ip man himself but never did complete or become senior in that style. He got really serious about martial arts when he deduced the vacuum of martial arts films and got into it in the US.
    I see this non-sequiter argument all the time, and wonder what it has to do with how good of a martial artist he really was. In any case, he was far more a martial artist than he was an actor, the acting gig came up in the mid to late 1960s by chance, he clearly struggled in Hollywood at the time, and then seeing his chance to spread his "message" further, he went back over seas where he discovered that he already becoming famous there. The man had a family to support, and like most of us, he went where the money is. That still changes little from how much he trained, sparring with students on weekly basis, weight training, running, training his stuff on his own for a couple hours a day.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •