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Thread: How soon to teach a counter

  1. #1

    How soon to teach a counter

    When do you start teaching counters to a move you taught?
    Why?

    Does anyone teach a few moves that could be used against each other, but doesn't explain them as being a counter until later on?
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    Its only a problem if there is a solution
    ⚓️

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Pipefighter View Post
    When do you start teaching counters to a move you taught?
    Why?
    When: Some time after the person has developed proficiency with the original technique.

    Why: Because that person needs time to gain confidence with a new technique.

  3. #3
    all in due time

    in two men drills

    we learn partner A part well first.

    then we learn partner B part next.

    you need a partner to practice or drill any countering move.

    That is.


  4. #4
    What do you think of this approach:

    Take new students, teach them basic stance, a few moves that can be used against each other, then have them begin sparring. Allow them to discover angles, timing, evasive movement, aggression based on their own natural abilities, AT FIRST?

    Then as they find their own problem spots, teach specific counters and additional moves.
    Gradually build in the entire program.

    For instance, if striking:
    Hands up, Straight punching, hook punching
    Let them use these against each other as defense for each. Defense through aggression and natural movement.

    If throwing:
    Basic grip, Single leg, reverse headlock(front choke/front headlock, guillotine), overhook cracking
    Same principal

    If combined:
    Front kick, hook punching, single leg

    I have used that method coaching wrestling with short term success. I felt it would enable a person to focus more on the task at hand instead of the proper technique. Also it allowed a newbie the room to move as he would naturally, not being confined by a technique he had not yet mastered. But i don't know if that is a good long term strategy, or just a short cut.

    Do you think in the long run that approach (short cut) would be beneficial?
    -------
    Its only a problem if there is a solution
    ⚓️

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pipefighter View Post
    What do you think of this approach:

    Take new students, teach them basic stance, a few moves that can be used against each other, then have them begin sparring. Allow them to discover angles, timing, evasive movement, aggression based on their own natural abilities, AT FIRST?

    Then as they find their own problem spots, teach specific counters and additional moves.
    Gradually build in the entire program.

    This approach is fine. I think the more complicated the technique the longer the wait to learn the counter. For example: counters to basic striking are taught early on; this is called blocking/deflections. More complicated striking, joint locks, grappling and throws need time to develop in order to understand the counter. I'm basically echoing what MightyB and SPJ have already said.

  6. #6
    I think it is a great way to teach. People get hung up on the idea of perfecting every single detail, before any pressure is applied....trouble is, 10 years later you got people still perfecting skills they never actually learned to use!

    Teach them to fight and handle pressure first, fine tune as you go.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think it is a great way to teach. People get hung up on the idea of perfecting every single detail, before any pressure is applied....trouble is, 10 years later you got people still perfecting skills they never actually learned to use!

    Teach them to fight and handle pressure first, fine tune as you go.
    Some truth here.

    ---

    I think the approach you described Pipefighter is great. I'd continue working with that approach if I were you. Long term you'll get more feedback as the students transition from students to accomplished fighters, meaning your club will be a club where everyone's input is valued. Sometimes the top down Master / Student approach stifles the development of the martial arts.

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