Chum Kiu 2nd section applications -Fut Sao Wing Chun

[stonecrusher69]

[LFJ]

So, would these techniques be feasible if the roles were reversed? Given the size difference, would he be as easily able to launch you away by pulling or bumping you in the same manner? It seems unlikely to me that you would be flown away by him doing these moves if you didn't want to be. Are there alternative interpretations for a smaller person facing a much larger opponent?

[stonecrusher69]

So, would these techniques be feasible if the roles were reversed? Given the size difference, would he be as easily able to launch you away by pulling or bumping you in the same manner? It seems unlikely to me that you would be flown away by him doing these moves if you didn't want to be. Are there alternative interpretations for a smaller person facing a much larger opponent?

These techniques can work on a larger person,however there is a limit to everything. I mean If I tried to move say a sumo wrestler i doubt if I could do it,but if he pulled me fast and let say he took me off my feet I could use his momentum to elbow him in the solar plexus or some other place using the tip of my elbow could do some damage. All the southern arts where designed like this. The southern kung fu where much smaller then the northern fighters.

[LFJ]

I'm not saying there would necessarily be a problem with these techniques for you. I mean, if you take a technique application approach to the forms, then some or many things will be useless for a much smaller male or female to work on a larger opponent, like that pulling move which appears to be a large portion of your CK form, repeated numerous times. I don't think your student would be able to move you with that if you didn't let him, much less a weaker female.

Sure, they may find other things in the forms they can use against anyone, higher percentage moves, but then time spent training moves they are not going to be able to pull off, or at least that are much lower percentages moves, would be time wasted.

They might also have to think about using different techniques to fit the aggressor when they may not have any time to assess the situation before they need to be responding reflexively or already be injured. To say the least, I have quite a different approach to the forms which doesn't include technique applications that rely on size or power. But our forms are also done quite differently too.

[stonecrusher69]

I'm not saying there would necessarily be a problem with these techniques for you. I mean, if you take a technique application approach to the forms, then some or many things will be useless for a much smaller male or female to work on a larger opponent, like that pulling move which appears to be a large portion of your CK form, repeated numerous times. I don't think your student would be able to move you with that if you didn't let him, much less a weaker female.

Sure, they may find other things in the forms they can use against anyone, higher percentage moves, but then time spent training moves they are not going to be able to pull off, or at least that are much lower percentages moves, would be time wasted.

They might also have to think about using different techniques to fit the aggressor when they may not have any time to assess the situation before they need to be responding reflexively or already be injured. To say the least, I have quite a different approach to the forms which doesn't include technique applications that rely on size or power. But our forms are also done quite differently too.

Fut Sao Wing Chun forms are a little more geared to how you would actually use them in fighting then say the Ip Man CK but it does not really matter all the ideas are the same.

Of course i take a technique application approach ..What good is an Idea without a delivery system...All wing chun works this way otherwise its not usefull for fighting.

[YouKnowWho]

At 2.13 you have used a move that's called "am pulling with knee kick".

I still remember during my senior high 1st year, the 1st day that I attended my long fist informal class (offered by my high school), I asked my long fist teacher, "What will you do if I punch at your face". He was quite shock from my question. He didn't expect a 14 years old boy in his 1st day class would ask teacher such kind of question. He said, "Punch me". I threw a punch toward his face, he used exactly the same move as your have shown in your clip at 2.13. I was falling down to the ground behind him. After that day, in his eyes, I'm always a bad student who loves fighting. Even today, I still agree with him 100% there. The only difference is if any of my students who doesn't love fighting, that student will be a bad student in my eyes.

[LFJ]

Fut Sao Wing Chun forms are a little more geared to how you would actually use them in fighting then say the Ip Man CK but it does not really matter all the ideas are the same.

No, I don't share these ideas at all.

Of course i take a technique application approach ..What good is an Idea without a delivery system...All wing chun works this way otherwise its not usefull for fighting.

I disagree. I never think in terms of applications. The forms for me are training tools for development and self-correction of certain behaviors and attributes for combat. There are no 1:1 applications.

[stonecrusher69]

No, I don't share these ideas at all.



I disagree. I never think in terms of applications. The forms for me are training tools for development and self-correction of certain behaviors and attributes for combat. There are no 1:1 applications.

Ok whatever works for you. In the end all that matter if you can use your kung fu.

[Grumblegeezer]

No, I don't share these ideas at all.



I disagree. I never think in terms of applications. The forms for me are training tools for development and self-correction of certain behaviors and attributes for combat. There are no 1:1 applications.

No 1:1 applications? How about a punch to the nose! But seriously, LFJ you do make a good point. However, I believe that showing how certain movements can be applied in specific situations is often a useful way to illustrate the concept behind the movement.

On the other hand, I would agree with you completely that there is no 1:1 correlation between the movements in forms and specific applications. IMO that seems reductive and limiting in the extreme.

[stonecrusher69]

No 1:1 applications? How about a punch to the nose! But seriously, LFJ you do make a good point. However, I believe that showing how certain movements can be applied in specific situations is often a useful way to illustrate the concept behind the movement.

On the other hand, I would agree with you completely that there is no 1:1 correlation between the movements in forms and specific applications. IMO that seems reductive and limiting in the extreme.

All traditional CMA teach forms then how to apply them. When I look at a technique I ask myself what is the concept behind it and where in the form does it come from.

[LFJ]

However, I believe that showing how certain movements can be applied in specific situations is often a useful way to illustrate the concept behind the movement.

I agree that applications can be used sometimes for illustrative purposes, but as you say that's not what the forms are about or how or how the system works.

All traditional CMA teach forms then how to apply them.

Depends on what you mean by "apply". Obviously not all CMAs deal in 1:1 technique application thinking. I do a CMA and that's not how it works.

[stonecrusher69]

I agree that applications can be used sometimes for illustrative purposes, but as you say that's not what the forms are about or how or how the system works.



Depends on what you mean by "apply". Obviously not all CMAs deal in 1:1 technique application thinking. I do a CMA and that's not how it works.

"Apply" mean understanding of the form,movements and applying them in applications.

[LFJ]

"Apply" mean understanding of the form,movements and applying them in applications.

Well then, you're just wrong when you say all TCMA work like that.

[stonecrusher69]

Well then, you're just wrong when you say all TCMA work like that.

Well I have had 7 formal teachers and many informal one and they all taught more or less that way. I have many books on martial arts and I have never seen one book that does not.

[LFJ]

Well, here I am telling you the TCMA system I train doesn't work like that.

Not to mention Yiquan, which doesn't even contain any forms to speak of!