一手化五手 - 1 strike followed by 4 strikes

[YouKnowWho]

Do you like this kind of training? Your thought?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAzMD....4.2-1.1-1-2-1

[Subitai]

Do you like this kind of training? Your thought?

I do allot of this type of bridging both with Hung Gar and albeit a little different of course in push hands.

I don't put numbers or count the beats of time or anything like that. That's too structured...it should be a natural flow off however the student reacts.

My only problem is that the teacher or guy on the left is doing all the grabbing and dominating. The student however is only responding... which in the beginning is ok.

But later, it's not real enough unless the student is taught to counter, grab as well and fight back. Then the sifu will be challenged again and keep his skill level up.

I would say most of what he's doing is already built into CMA...in a nutshell. Any decent Chunner could keep up with that guy no problem...except for the ones that complain all the time about being grabbed.

[-N-]

Do you like this kind of training? Your thought?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAzMD....4.2-1.1-1-2-1

I'm surprised that the Chinese title says one technique(hand) leads to (becomes) five techniques. But the english says four strikes followed by one, which is very different.

In Mantis we say 一手化五手 to mean that there are many possible followup techniques/strikes. From any followup, there are multiple other followups. The point being that combinations must flow freely and changeably.

Brendan Lai also explained it in terms of counterattacks. For every attack, there are five counters. For every counter, there are five others.

This is meant figuratively, again with the point being that with this kind of geometric progression, your attack combinations must be flexible, free, continuous, unpredictable, etc.

The video didn't actually show the partner training exercises. Just one side only. So you didn't get to see the relaxed flexible attacks and counterattacks.

And with Mantis, it's not about neverending combos. It's about blitz with a combo attack that's adaptable to any response, so you can close in for your finishing move.

[-N-]

I don't put numbers or count the beats of time or anything like that. That's too structured...it should be a natural flow off however the student reacts.

Yes, that is the real meaning behind 一手化五手.

Any decent Chunner could keep up with that guy no problem...except for the ones that complain all the time about being grabbed.

He's not going particularly fast, relaxed/explosively, or to target. The motions are big too. In usage, it can look very different.

Also, the grabs don't need to be that rigid.

[SPJ]

Do you like this kind of training? Your thought?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAzMD....4.2-1.1-1-2-1

1. gou lou cai gua

zhan nian

are all practiced in the 5 hand/fist sets.

2. One same hand method repeated 5 times with the left and right hand. (One hand transforms into 5 hands)

3. The four cover all the basics. Good drilling of the basic 4 variant hand/fists.

Jin shou (vertical advance hand) and Cuo Chui (vertical fist) are the same.

4. I like mo pan shou (horizontal circling hand)

and gun shou (vertical circling hand).

left, right, left, right and left or vise versa

you practice five moves in a cluster.

5. You may keep going until the opponent is defeated.

Tiao shou (upward hand) was used by the student.

Thanks for posting.

[-N-]

1. gou lou cai gua

zhan nian

are all practiced in the 5 hand/fist sets.

2. One same hand method repeated 5 times with the left and right hand. (One hand transforms into 5 hands)

Same move 5 times is not much 化 going on.

you practice five moves in a cluster.

5. You may keep going until the opponent is defeated.

Might think about how long to keep going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijUQqVg2iTw#t=89

[YouKnowWho]

Might think about how long to keep going.

The moment that you can control both of your opponent's arms, the moment that hand combo will stop. The octopus has only "1 single skill" and that's to wrap it's opponent's body ASAP. I used to love the fast hand combo. Lately I like the "octopus" strategy more. It's simpler.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Never been a huge fan of these type of training because the contact tend to dictate scenarios that are NOT addressed in this training.
It leads to clinch work for example.
Also this type tends to not use footwork in a PRACTICAL manner and foot work is crucial when stringing together strikes.

[-N-]

The moment that you can control both of your opponent's arms, the moment that hand combo will stop. The octopus has only "1 single skill" and that's to wrap it's opponent's body ASAP. I used to love the fast hand combo. Lately I like the "octopus" strategy more. It's simpler.

If two Shuai Chiao guys fight, doesn't one guy try to counter if the other guy tries to grab/wrap?

When you do a takedown, do you ever switch your attack if the other person tries to counter?

Do you ever do a setup so you can followup with a different takedown?

All of those are 一手化五手.

[-N-]

Also this type tends to not use footwork in a PRACTICAL manner and foot work is crucial when stringing together strikes.

The drills do have footwork, but this wasn't shown in the video.

Even boxers have 一手化五手(and better than many kf people even).

How many different combos can you set up leading off with a jab?

[YouKnowWho]

If two Shuai Chiao guys fight, doesn't one guy try to counter if the other guy tries to grab/wrap?

When you do a takedown, do you ever switch your attack if the other person tries to counter?

Do you ever do a setup so you can followup with a different takedown?

All of those are 一手化五手.

I'm talking about a grappler fights against a striker, and not 2 grapplers fight against each other. The "octopus" strategy won't give you any advantage if your opponent is also a good grappler.

IMO, you should try to eliminate your opponent's both

- "arm mobility", and
- "leg mobility",

as much as possible. With that goal in mind, your training and testing will be different.

I always like the following test.

- A uses punches. B uses arm wrap.
- If B can wrap A's 1st punch, or A's 2nd punch, B wins that round. Otherwise A wins that round.
- In order to prevent A from throwing 3 punches outside of the punching range. A has to move in toward B, and B has to move in toward A at the same time. In other words, it's a head on collision. Either A's punch lands on B's head, or A's punching arm gets wrapped by B's arm. No back step or side step allowed.

Test this for 20 rounds and record the result. What do you think the final record will be? Can A win more rounds than B, or the other way around?

[-N-]

I'm talking about a grappler fights against a striker, and not 2 grapplers fight against each other. The "octopus" strategy won't give you any advantage if your opponent is also a good grappler.

Ok, I see.

Though don't people integrate a variety of methods - kicking, punching, throwing?

If someone primarily punches, can't they still use the grappler's methods for countering grab/wrap?

Integration across all skills is the ultimate reflection of 一手化五手.

[YouKnowWho]

If someone primarily punches, can't they still use the grappler's methods for countering grab/wrap?

Of course you can. The concern is, do you know how to

- take your opponent down from there?
- deal with your opponent's counters?
- ...

Integration across all skills is the ultimate reflection of 一手化五手.

After you have wrapped your opponent's arms,

Your "over hook" can change into:

- head lock,
- cracking,
- shoulder lifting,
- chin pulling,
- ...

Your "under hook" can change into:

- shoulder pulling,
- shoulder pressing,
- waist surrounding,
- single leg,
- ...

[-N-]

After you have wrapped your opponent's arms,

Your "over hook" can change into:

- head lock,
- cracking,
- shoulder lifting,
- chin pulling,
- ...

Your "under hook" can change into:

- shoulder pulling,
- shoulder pressing,
- waist surrounding,
- single leg,
- ...

That is the meaning of 一手化五手.

And the concept is recursive as well.

[-N-]

Lately I like the "octopus" strategy more. It's simpler.

Nothing wrong with being able to change from striking or kicking to "octopus" to kao da or shuai.

That makes more options for 一手化五手.

Then it really becomes TCMA MMA.

And everybody still has their specialty.