For Those that Would Re-Write Yong Chun History

[Minghequan]

Lets stop the chest-beating and return to the subject of this thread:

Here are 12 basic questions you can ask yourself concerning Yongchun:

1. What are the origins of my line of Yongchun?

2. Can the origin claims be substantiated by verifiable documentation?

3. Does the documentation coincide with the oral tradition?

4. What are the fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

5. Are they hypothetical or theoretical?

6. What aspects of my line of Yongchun do I hold questionable?

7. Do they hold up under investigation?

8. How is my line of Yongchun comparatively to other branches?

9. What are the similarities what are the differences?

10. Do these parallels coincide with generally accepted tradition?

11. What are the accepted fundamental concepts of my line of Yongchun?

12. Do I truly understand and comprehend these concepts beyond the given explanation?

Hendrik care to answer?

[anerlich]

dlcox, I agree with you about the impossibility of determining definitive answers about WC's past.

My lineages' claims regarding history as I first heard them in the 1980s were obviously self-serving propaganda with huge holes and logical flaws that no person capable of critical thinking could possibly hang on to for any length of time.

The recent "historical breakthroughs" are no better and, if anything, less credible and more grandiose.

I fear the past of WC matters little, when all indications from this forum this are that in its future lies only irrelevance, except perhaps as a curiosity, haggled over in aged care facilities by dementia sufferers.

[ccwayne]

LoL!

Same old Wayne Yung, you are just jealous because you don't have this wing chun 1848 technology ,
and can't take it that I share to Sergio for free.

Lol

Hahah.... Those are rubbish, and why I need that. hahaha..... not fully loaded under stress. hahaha.... I say rubbish because it iis not practical, just from your fuxking mouth only.

[ccwayne]

Hendrik, I am very very busy and busy to dealing my HK matter. Please come and copy more to this forum. I temporary leave here, and you talk to yourself in this period, about your ykwc, 1848( Oh! you don't use 1850, then I used 1850 lah hahaha...) wck, 2014 forumula one. As my things completed, sure we will join you to help you to promote your emei ykwc in China, in Taiwan, in Hong Kong, but SEA, I think Cho's family and Yik's family are waiting to welcome you back. hahahaha...... All we will be happy.

Remember don't forget eat yourself. hahaha...

[dlcox]

Weiner #1:

You're a liar! My action figure is not a Ken doll dressed up to look like GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip, it's the real thing!

Weiner #2:

Is not! You can't afford a real one you're on the welfare!

Weiner #1:

Not ah, your just jealous that you don't have a real one!

Weiner #2:

Get outta my sandbox and take your crappy home made action figure with you. I don't want to play with you anymore, you've got cooties!
Weiner #2 then buries his GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip in the sandbox.

Later that evening.........

In the middle of the night someone sneaks over to the sandbox digs up the action figure and leaves a "Steamy" suprise in its place.

Later that week......

Weiner #1 shows off his awesome new GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip to all his friends. Weiner #2 hears about this and is very, very curious as to how Weiner #1 suddenly came into the possession of a brand new GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip. Weiner #2 frantically digs in the sandbox for his action figure, only to find that his treasured possession has been replaced by a steaming handful of cack.

Weiner #2 is very, very mad and accuses Weiner #1 of stealing his doll. Weiner #1 denies the accusation and says that it was the same doll that that he seen him with last week. Weiner #1 tells Weiner #2 that his action figure is the real one and then convinces all his friends that Weiner #2 is just a cack handed fool who never owned a real GI Joe action figure with the Kung Fu grip........

Stay tuned for another exciting episode of "As the Sandbox Turns".

Will Barbie testify?

Who left the turd in the sandbox?

Is Ken really a Cobra agent in disguise?

All these answers and more COMING SOON to a sandbox near you!










All pettiness aside. Who took what from whom, what came from where, whats original what is not is irrelevant and speculative if the simple questions I posted earlier cannot be truthfully answered.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I remember a time when Martial Artist actually FOUGHT to prove their points.
Someone would say, "this way is better" or whatever and then they would actually *gasp* FIGHT and prove it !

Shocking, I know...

[LFJ]

I remember a time when Martial Artist actually FOUGHT to prove their points.
Someone would say, "this way is better" or whatever and then they would actually *gasp* FIGHT and prove it !

Shocking, I know...

"Talk is cheap. State your case on Youtube"...

[dlcox]

I remember a time when Martial Artist actually FOUGHT to prove their points.
Someone would say, "this way is better" or whatever and then they would actually *gasp* FIGHT and prove it !

Shocking, I know...

That is a bygone era, lost to the ravages of time and technical advances. Today it is more convenient and en vogue to virtually spar over the internet. It's like a video game where you have endless lives.

It's sad to watch the decline of socialization fall from actual contact between two people to electronic interaction.

This whole kerfuffle isn't really about whether Hendrik's theory is viable or not, that is something that can be easily proven or dis-proven through simple hands on testing. It's about his claims on it's origins and his version of Yongchun being the heir to the proverbial throne. He is simply playing on ancestral claims as a means to substantiate the legitimacy and validation of his interpretations of Yongchun concepts. Interestingly enough, many others do the same, they simply won't admit it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That is a bygone era, lost to the ravages of time and technical advances. Today it is more convenient and en vogue to virtually spar over the internet. It's like a video game where you have endless lives.

It's sad to watch the decline of socialization fall from actual contact between two people to electronic interaction.

This whole kerfuffle isn't really about whether Hendrik's theory is viable or not, that is something that can be easily proven or dis-proven through simple hands on testing. It's about his claims on it's origins and his version of Yongchun being the heir to the proverbial throne. He is simply playing on ancestral claims as a means to substantiate the legitimacy and validation of his interpretations of Yongchun concepts. Interestingly enough, many others do the same, they simply won't admit it.

You know what a lineage of a FIGHTING systems means?
Nothing, at least nothing to those that value the actual EFFECTIVENESS of the system.
Most people that have done any serious study into MA know that the actual verifiable history of most MA is simply NOT conclusive or even verifiable ( the exception MAY be the Koryu systems of Japan, at least the ones that actually kept written records).
To make any absolute claim on any TCMA is virtually impossible because Chinese MA were notorious at not only making stuff up BUT at NOT keeping a written trail of anything. Oral tradition in terms of MA is suspect at best and should only be used as a story, not as factual history.

Again, most people that have done any serious AND unbiased research know this and that is why lineage "wars" only matter to those trying to SELL something, usually their own "special and unique" brand of BS.

In the end what matters and what will guarantee the survival of ANY MA system is simply this:
DOES IT WORK.

Period.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Be careful sanjuro_ronin. What you say here is making too much sense an could jeopardize the nonsensicality of this never-ending, on-going, fruitless discussion.

It may even bring down the WC forum !!
LMAO !

You know what I read today?

This:
"Kung Fu isn't just about fighting, but without the fighting, it is not kung fu"

[Vajramusti]

It may even bring down the WC forum !!
LMAO !

You know what I read today?

This:
"Kung Fu isn't just about fighting, but without the fighting, it is not kung fu"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lack of moderation has already helped make the forum irrelevant.
There is wing chun without the forum.
Unrestricted slamming and Hendrik spamming contributed to it's irrelevance.

[Sihing73]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lack of moderation has already helped make the forum irrelevant.

True perhaps, but keep in mind that this is what the majority of those posting here wanted.
I remember when moderation was done far more aggressively but of course many were unhappy.
The choice was given and the majority spoke and thus the forum has become what it is today.

As I have said over the years, this is YOUR forum so if the majority would like a return to a more aggressive moderated forum I am game.
Just let me know, until then it will be business as usual.

[dlcox]

You know what a lineage of a FIGHTING systems means?
Nothing, at least nothing to those that value the actual EFFECTIVENESS of the system.
Most people that have done any serious study into MA know that the actual verifiable history of most MA is simply NOT conclusive or even verifiable ( the exception MAY be the Koryu systems of Japan, at least the ones that actually kept written records).
To make any absolute claim on any TCMA is virtually impossible because Chinese MA were notorious at not only making stuff up BUT at NOT keeping a written trail of anything. Oral tradition in terms of MA is suspect at best and should only be used as a story, not as factual history.

Again, most people that have done any serious AND unbiased research know this and that is why lineage "wars" only matter to those trying to SELL something, usually their own "special and unique" brand of BS.

In the end what matters and what will guarantee the survival of ANY MA system is simply this:
DOES IT WORK.

Period.

Instead of addressing someone who understands this and has made it a point since the OP , convince the others. You make it seem as if I don't understand this enigma. All I've done is simply give the members of the Wing Chun Forum a formula in which to assess the truth and pointed out their childish behavior.

Unfortunately this is a truth:

It's sad to watch the decline of socialization fall from actual contact between two people to electronic interaction.

In today's society the new generation lacks effective socialization skills. Almost all communication is done via text, email, twitter, facebook, instagram etc. It's a safety net that creates a buffer between them and reality. Online they can be whomever they wish, in real life they may not live up to the persona. We as a society are slowly losing a part of the one thing that has made us a society, physical interaction. This is the fault of our generation, not only did we allow it to happen we nurtured it.

The questions I posed are a simple tool to self realization that can be used to judge the quality, understanding and worth of any martial art a person may practice. These have to be answered honestly and without bias or prejudice to oneself in order for it to be realized. Problem is people can't let go and refuse to question a belief that that gives them hope, irregardless of how negatively it may affect their lives. It is simply fear of (insert caveat here) that keeps them from initiating contact and exploration.

To make any absolute claim on any TCMA is virtually impossible because Chinese MA were notorious at not only making stuff up BUT at NOT keeping a written trail of anything. Oral tradition in terms of MA is suspect at best and should only be used as a story, not as factual history.

Again, most people that have done any serious AND unbiased research know this and that is why lineage "wars" only matter to those trying to SELL something, usually their own "special and unique" brand of BS.

Sounds familiar, but again why direct this at me, I'm the one that pointed it out. You clearly understand the dynamics of both your statements and this forum, so what is the issue?

You're the moderator, moderate, you already know what clearly needs to be done. Whats holding you back?

[Vajramusti]

True perhaps, but keep in mind that this is what the majority of those posting here wanted.
I remember when moderation was done far more aggressively but of course many were unhappy.
The choice was given and the majority spoke and thus the forum has become what it is today.

As I have said over the years, this is YOUR forum so if the majority would like a return to a more aggressive moderated forum I am game.
Just let me know, until then it will be business as usual.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Your" forum? "majority"?

People just come and go here - your and majority imply some stable base from which a majority is derived.

PS. Some of the problems are related to the difficulties of extended discussion of complex issues via internet
chats and sound bites. But the lack of moderation enhances the anarchy.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, I am very very busy and busy to dealing my HK matter. Please come and copy more to this forum. I temporary leave here, and you talk to yourself in this period, about your ykwc, 1848( Oh! you don't use 1850, then I used 1850 lah hahaha...) wck, 2014 forumula one.


As my things completed, sure we will join you to help you to promote your emei ykwc in China, in Taiwan, in Hong Kong, but SEA, I think Cho's family and Yik's family are waiting to welcome you back. hahahaha...... All we will be happy.

Remember don't forget eat yourself. hahaha...

Wayne,


1.

Thanks but no thanks!

We have no common ground and here on no communication at all is needed. This is my last post. You walk your path I walk mine.

I don't need your help, and remember I have make public announcement to isolate from your information, you, your mun.
Robert Chu , Allan Orr, Sergio, Jim , Phillip , Navin, Derloi , ........ and many many senior Wck sifus
from different lineages around the world can do our job to sharing a part of facts of 1848 Wck . ( which you don't have anyway.)






2.

As in this Hong Kong public post ,
What kind of person are you scolding Law sifu the head of SCWC mun in public on some ones birthday party? Where is your moduk? Your respect to your Mun?

From all the Hong Kong open forum and Facebook post, It doesn't seem like you are the spokesman of the SCWC Mun which you are placing your self either.



武術各介朋友，看圖就知翁生當曰做講師，今天他和一衆師兄弟無說話講了，本人同羅師意見不同，但同一衆過去 同門有見面电話聯系，翁生没有了，問翁生鄭宝林父生日為何拍抬駡羅師當日武林好多人見

(Wayne hit the table and scold his SCWC sifu in pubic at a birthday party, witness by ( in front of ) many Hong Kong Chinese martial artists.)


In case you didn't read
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...71#post1276871






3.
Yik kam lineage and Cho family is none of your business,
Since moths ago, your intention is to destroy yik kam lineage and cho family due to you cannot leverage our 1848 Wck preservation.

We in Yik kam and Cho family is smart enough to not take your trap to destroy our inheritance from Yik kam and Cho ancestors. We don't have to like each other's, we might not be all agree , but no one will destroy our ancestors' inheritance which is our treasure you attemp to destroy.