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Thread: Internal training of the SLT

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    Hmm, Rhino Strategy is that anything like the 1840 something DNA or Snake Engine proposed by someone else??
    Sorry, just kidding and having a little bit of fun.

    Could you provide an answer to the question I asked about why Yip Man would seem to advocate slow training if it is of no value?
    Not just Ip Man but every Wing Chun sifu I new did SLT very slowly. Up to 1 hr.
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  2. #92

    Trying too hard, too fast

    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you first learn how to

    - catch a basket ball (or base ball), did your opponent threw that ball to you in "slow speed"?
    - swim in the river, did that river water slow down for you?

    Why should TCMA training be any different? You need to adapt to the environment. You can't expect the environment to adapt to you.

    The following clip is the normal training speed in my system. That training speed won't slow down for any beginners.


    Hopefully when you learned how to catch, Randy Johnson wasn't throwing at you. And this isn't Sparta, I hope the taught you to swim in the mellow pool, shallow and smooth. That said, if you're a man, and you want to learn to fight, you shouldn't limit yourself to slow training for very long. If you train hard and fast, you will get better at hard and fast training. If you want to be good and mental focus and imagination power,( I think I can), then slow, deliberate concentration can help. People at the Olympic level of almost anything work on mental strength and mental rehersal. I think it helps me.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by anerlich View Post
    I've heard this story too. From memory, it's recounted in DT Suzuki's "Zen and Japanese Culture".

    I have to wonder how many tea masters insulted Samurai and did not survive? ... as this is essentially anecdotal evidence, may be cherry picking to support a particular position, and ... may just be fiction.

    Not trashing your story, just playing devil's advocate, I've been meditating daily seeking a similar mindset, but for other reasons as well.

    I think i'll be sticking with WC and BJJ training rather than taking up tea making or ikebana. Miyamoto Musashi prided himself on pursuing a range of activities, calligraphy etc. for self development .... after he had notched up a body count high enough that no one else wanted to mess with him.

    You can spar slow and light in jiu jitsu, though only if the other guy is prepared to flow as well. This can actually accelerate progress up to a point ... but if you don't "keep it real" at least some of the time, your defense gets sloppy. I wouldn't try to link this sort of thing and meditation, though.

    The pity is that there few double-blind studies on this sort of thing, so no one is really talking from a base of evidence
    Good post. One thing I will add is that, in China at least, meditation in none of the major disciplines is an end to itself, nor are its results. You meditate to quiet the mind, but a quiet mind is not an end to itself, one could just as easily become a quiet monster. Contemplation and meditation are always paired in Chinese disciplines, quiet the mind to observe and understand, observing and understanding, one does less that disturbs the mind. Counting breaths is only to quiet, eventually one is supposed to be quiet enough to contemplate, not count breaths.

    I can see going slow for reasons of body mechanics, honing them, but only if one also trains fast, otherwise one might tailor the body mechanics to conditions where the kinetic energy of motion does not play out identically. By also doing it fast, one makes certain not to train unrealistically. Same with training the same things live.

    I can see the value of quieting the mind in training in order to observe the results of motion, and then contemplating the motion. In fighting, I can see the value of not letting one's ideas get in the way of seeing the fight that is before one. But in fighting, it's really not the time to count breaths, but counting breaths isn't meditation or contemplation, it's a gateway to meditation, nothing more.

    Anyway, good post.

  4. #94
    Also, if you throw a ball Yang style taiji slow, you have not thrown a ball, you have dropped it. This is not to argue that there is no value to slow practice, I think there is as long as it is always paired with practice at speed, but the danger of slow practice is that it allows some things to happen that cannot happen at speed, and does not fully allow some things to happen that only happen at speed. It should inform footwork transitions, but some fundamental steps that are necessary in all fighting are almost never used in slow practice for this reason. By slower loading of weightedness from step to step, one necessarily accepts a duration of tension in one leg or the other that, at speed, is simply loading and unloading, not at all a show of stance.

    The comparison to throwing does not work, because no one throws a ball taiji slow. Ever. Throwing always involves a compression that comes from progressive building up of force, taiji slow does not. Without that, there is no throwing.

    Doing strikes slow is more about linking than about power. Linking is helpful to power, but a practice that teaches linking is not having power, it is the result you are looking for. Practicing linking and practicing actual usage are necessary. One can link very well in form and not be able to apply that against someone who does not link superbly, but can apply. One can learn linking without slow work, one cannot learn application without working at speed. Especially throws, qinnas, strikes, etc.

  5. #95
    Only the first section of the sil lim tao is done slowly- not the whole form.
    the slowness helps develop awareness and intent in controlling the tan, huen,
    fok and bong motions- with minimal local muscle tension- and with awareness of
    bone and joint alignments and orientation towards target.
    Practice makes the principles of motion second nature so they can be applied
    in diverse ways

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    Only the first section of the sil lim tao is done slowly- not the whole form.
    the slowness helps develop awareness and intent in controlling the tan, huen,
    fok and bong motions- with minimal local muscle tension- and with awareness of
    bone and joint alignments and orientation towards target.
    Practice makes the principles of motion second nature so they can be applied
    in diverse ways
    I can understand this. It is sensible. The fact that other sections are done at speed also gets around the issues I was getting at, namely that speed tends to reveal weaknesses in ability to link by way of failure or balance issues once more substantial energy is added.

    To illustrate, one can have a washing machine whose spin cycle seems perfect with smaller loads. Once a full load is added, it can be revealed that you need to fix your washing machine because it is not really balanced. Taking it apart then reveals that they no longer want you to be able to fix the **** thing!

    **** planned obsolescence!

  7. #97
    Join Date
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    Here's a spin you'll all enjoy for developing that internal energy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NpyyWlCUpE

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by PalmStriker View Post
    Here's a spin you'll all enjoy for developing that internal energy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NpyyWlCUpE
    ------------



    IMo- don't need taichi to develop wing chun

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