Yang Style Tai Chi

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

There are several avenues where Yang Taiji has spread throughout the world. Where does your Yang Taiji come from?

[Ma_Xu_Zha]

Could Include-
Kuo Lien-Ying- 'Guang Ping'Yang Taiji

Wang Yien Nian- Yangjian Michuan Yang Taiji

[kungfuyou]

Anyone know any good sites for Yang Tai Chi. I'm thinking about taking it up and am looking for some good video clips as well.

Thanks in advance for the help. :)

[Nexus]

very very very few good clips of quality Yang Style on the internet. This is due to several reasons, most of which I wont get into.

The main reason of this is becuase most practioners of the yang styles of taiji do Yang Cheng-Fu's 24-movement for health benefits. You'll find this ALL over the internet and it posseses little to no martial application.

If you come accross Yang Lu'chans old yang style clips then you may be in for a treat.

You might also find some clips from YCF's long form, which might be decent depending on who is in them.

If you want some good videos on the yang style though you might give <A HREF="http://www.taichiworld.net" TARGET=_blank>Erle Montaigue's site, http://www.taichiworld.net a look.

As for clips, you may find a lot more of push hands/sticky hands on the internet then taiji. Thats because this tends to be a lot more popular then the forms themselves as people use it as a measurement of their martial abilities (a fatal mistake I might add).

Good Luck on Your quest, and ask any questions you'd like, as I study Yang style and will do my best to answer them.

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[kungfuyou]

Thanks for the response. How does this style differ from lets say HSING I? Is this more internal or external? Or is it about the same?

[GLW]

Nexus,

at least get your numbers straight.

Yang Chengfu's routine is known in many parts of China as "Ba shr wu su Yangs sze Taijiquan" or 85 Posture Yang's Taijiquan. Some folks also count it as 103, 108 and other numbers.

The 24 Posture Taijiquan (also known as Simplified Taijiquan) is based in a major part on Yang style but is NOT Yang style. There are MANY major differences between the two routines. 24 Posture was created in the 1950's (1955 if memory serves) and was designed to be a basic and beginning routine that would build a foundation and be good for health.

As such, it does EXACTLY what it was created for. Don't expect a Volkswagen to be a Mercedes Benz.

Also, while I agree with you on the quality of videos you will find on and off the internet for Yang Style, it is not simply the 85 posture that is bad...it is virtually all of them. Finding a good video on Taijiquan is not an easy thing to do.

Finally, it would be nice if you would split your opnion sections from your advertising section. While you may have a point about the quality of most videos, your statements are tainted and come off like "They suck but my teacher is great" by the way you got to the website and blurb for Montaigue. I am sure there are more constructive ways to get a plug in for your favorite.

[Nexus]

I see you giving a lot of criticism to my suggestions of trying to help somebody out but no suggestions for them on where to start their research.

I was trying to help the person who asked the question, not badger other posters who had aid in the subject. The person who asks questions on this forum should take what we each say as a grain of salt.

Me trying to put in a plug for my favorite teacher? At least I gave them a teacher to base some learning off of rather then just bad mouth someone else for providing one.

Why don't you focus your next posts GLW on helping the person who is asking these questions rather then telling those who answered how to be as profound as you.

PS. My mistake on the history, you seem to know that better than I. Thanks for the information, I will compare that to what I had thought I knew and make changes. Thanks.

And also you might be interested to know that Erle Montaigue is not my taijiquan instructor as he lives in Australia and I live in Alaska. He is though a friend and I respect his abilities.

I don't play into the game of favorites, unless it comes to italian food.

- Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[This message was edited by Nexus on 08-14-01 at 04:40 PM.]

[Nexus]

And then it was brought into the light... By the way, this is from another website, not my own, but it should give a rough idea or accurate one depending on what you have learned.



- Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[GLW]

"I see you giving a lot of criticism to my suggestions of trying to help somebody out but no suggestions for them on where to start their research. "

My first criticism was at your MISINFORMATION concerning Yang Chengfu and 24 Posture Taijiquan. Exactly where is MISINFORMATION in any context helping anyone. Just setting the record straight.

"I was trying to help the person who asked the question, not badger other posters who had aid in the subject. The person who asks questions on this forum should take what we each say as a grain of salt. "


I merely pointed out that it was NOT true. A bit too tongue in cheek ....but if it was too abrasive, Sorry... I meant to encourage you to separate your plugs for what you like from misinformation. I may have included you with others from a certain area that tend to insult all people who do not do their version of Taijiquan....if I did that...again...Sorry.

"Me trying to put in a plug for my favorite teacher? At least I gave them a teacher to base some learning off of rather then just bad mouth someone else for providing one. "

The plug seemed to me to be at the expense of others. That is what I objected to. I do NOT have to list my teacher in order to object to such a thing.

"Why don't you focus your next posts GLW on helping the person who is asking these questions rather then telling those who answered how to be as profound as you."

Correcting erroneous information IS helping. Also, as you mentioned and I agree, there are VERY FEW sources on the web that are worth looking into. The poster would do better to go to something like A Taste of China or look around for a live teacher.

I imagine that he/she would also get a better list if they asked for instructors in their area.

"PS. My mistake on the history, you seem to know that better than I. Thanks for the information, I will compare that to what I had thought I knew and make changes. Thanks. "

Next time, I may try to be less tongue in cheek...it might be taken better :)


"I don't play into the game of favorites, unless it comes to italian food"

ONLY Italian food? I tend to play favorites on many types of food....Life is too short to eat bad food.

[patriot]

How does our friend Erle fit into the lineage chart? Isn't he teaching and received the true transmission of the "original" Yang style?

How do those students of Lee's get listed amongst the great names of Yang Tai Chi? Are they recognized Yang disciples and how come nobody ever heard of them?

[Nexus]

I didn't make that chart, I found it and thought it would give a general sense. That chart was made by a school that I am completely unfamiliar with and I just wanted to give those out there a sense of at least the lineage, although it is probably not accurate by any means. I do not stand by that chart, nor did I have anything to due with its creation. I would take it as just a reference or a starting point to some investigation if you want to learn more about the actual history of the yang style. I guarantee if you found 20 websites, with 20 different charts, most of the dates and names would be slightly different if not completely different!

Sorry for any confusion.

- Nexus

Freedom is what you do with what is done to you. - Sartres

[GLW]

Nexus has that right on.

Even if you are at a school where the teacher is quite good, you may find the lineage thing questionable.

For example, I have found that virtually every Yang style that I have seen in the past 16 years that is NOT directly traced to Yang Chengfu has the people doing it tracing it to Yang Banhou or trying to.

Considering that Yang Banhou was reputed to have only had 4 students who stayed with him, the countless styles that try to link to him tends to stretch credibility...especially since many look WAY different.

There are a couple of Yang styles that are NOT Yang Chengfu based that do not make the Yang Banhou claim....and some of those are plausible and some are pretty much out there in believabilty as well.

This is not really much help to newbies. Actually, I had been doing Taijiquan for almost 8 years before I became aware of the major amount of BS in the history from most teachers.

[Kaitain(UK)]

Yang Family - Ip Tai Tak, Yang Chou Sung's 2 daughters

Yang Family Style - non recognised by the family at all but lay claim to family lineage - a few wannabes that think having the family name gives them credence

Yang style - anyone using the Yang form (or derivative), including those that are 'family' lineage but cannot be arsed to get involved with the political side of it all.

Old Yang style - this is a Taiji set allegedly from before Yang ChenFu made it easy. This has not been substantiated either way (I don't know the full story as it isn't really important). Earle teaches this.

So Earle doesn't associate himself with Yang family Taiji at all as it isn't the same thing as far as he is concerned.

"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?"

[Brad]

Here's some Taiji clips: http://www.taiji.de/taiji/head5e/index.htm

[PlasticSquirrel]

in china, there would be no difference in you saying whether you practice yang style, yang family style, or yang chengfu style. when we take the translated terms and scrutinize them with western thinking... well, we all know what happens then.

agh... almost forgot what i was going to write... here is a very good site for information. it's not exactly beginner material, but it can give you a good idea if you're serious.

http://sunflower.singnet.com.sg/~limttk/index.htm
i really like the site. so much stuff on it. especially the classics.

about xingyi quan (also spelled hsing i, and numerous other ways) and taijiquan (also spelled tai chi and numerous other ways), they are both very internal. i believe that xingyiquan is more external, however, because the muscles are alternately tensed slightly and then relaxed. taijiquan is very complex in it's use of jins, softness, and neutralizing. xingyiquan is more concerned with raw internal power, full-speed training, and short forms, but lots of them. of course, this is a broad generalization.

you can find more information on xingyiquan at
http://www.emptyflower.com/xingyiquan
this is an extremely good site.

i'm glad you came here rather than trusting a site you come across to give you accurate information, or endlessly trying to find a good one. :)