'Investigation on some forgotten WCK history'

[Minghequan]

Seminar on 'Investigation on some forgotten WCK history'
探討一段已被遺忘的詠春拳歷史

http://youtu.be/y7xu71lGzZA

[Minghequan]

http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/sc...storyscwcykwaa

[Daniel Fong]

A paper on 'Investigation on some forgotton Wing Chun Kuen history' from Wayne Yung, Snake Crane Wing Chun.


http://www.slideshare.net/ccwayne/sc...storyscwcykwaa

[Jim Roselando]

Members of the Hong Kong MA community thinks Wayne's writing/research is full of wrong info...

They even set up a Blog requesting evidence to support his theories...



***

http://blogcity.me/blog/reply_blog_e...5037&id=681082



歷史真的假不了
2014/11/14 08:44:47
網誌分類: 生活






在武林裏講求名譽、誠信和忠義！相信沒有人反對我這句話。但到底有多少人會去遵守？又有多少人 會堅持去做？

電影《一代宗師》中，有一句名言：「人活在世上，有的活成了面子，有的活成了裏子，都是時事使然。」說的是 有人踏別人肩膀上位，亦有人用面子去處世辦事，所謂大紅花轎人抬人，有人成功就自然會有人失敗，總之因果 報應成王敗寇。據說從前的門派或武館為了面子，為求爭一口氣不惜單挑械鬥，那是歷代武林中都經常發生的事情 ，不出為奇！

最近香港武林瘋傳，有人寫了一篇有關自己門派歷史文章，觸犯了另一門派的事件。不滿意一方，在facebo ok及多個討論區，要求對方交代，並提出要與對方「以武會友」！

有關文章內容如下：太平天國期間，紅船多聚集反清義士，洪門、天地會、三合會及其他反清組織作南方根據地， 眾多南派拳術亦聚集於此，小練頭（在紅船稱蛇鶴拳）亦是其一。

同時太平天國武術總教練是蔡李佛創始人陳亨，所以大多叛徒都是蔡李佛高手，以長橋大馬見稱。

一八五三年紅船戲班武生李文茂帶領弟子數千人參與太平天國起義攻打廣州城，後因兩廣總督葉名琛堅守及英兵輔 助，才得保廣州城。半年後李文茂轉打廣西，並於翌年建大成國。一八五五年清廷反利用太平天國叛徒，火燒瓊花 會館及所有紅船，當時被殺人數超過八萬，廣東亦禁戲達十五年。及後紅船子弟計劃復仇，對付叛徒 。

在眾多南拳中，只有小練頭的埋身搏擊可與叛徒擅長的長橋大馬一較高下，但學習小練頭需時較長，故把一套一百 零八式長小練頭分拆三套有系統的詠春拳，可在短時間訓練埋身打法對付叛徒，使詠春與蔡李佛成為冤家至今，一 打長橋大馬，一打短橋窄馬，互相克制。

一八六四年，太平天國亡，及後戲班亦得以重開，八和會館亦繼成立，但已受控於滿清政府！這段歷史無人再提， 故過了一兩代人已被遺忘至今。

作者：翁XX」

筆者當然不能以耳代目，為求證實文章內容真假，我就約見了幾位知情人士，務求再深入了解一下！第一位是蛇鶴 詠春拳的莫偉強師傅，另一位是鴻勝蔡李的陳錦輝師傅。

看過這篇文章，我發現背景人物和歷史都錯誤百出！這位翁先生所發表文章的內容有兩點確實涉嫌觸犯了貶低別的 門派名譽！

下期轉錄出來和讀者們討論。文章刊出後以長橋大馬稱譽武林的門派，反應非常激烈，尤其是鴻勝蔡李佛的陳錦輝 師傅，他曾約見翁先生，並要求翁先生當面對質及希望友善性質以武會友，大家來交流引證蛇鶴詠春小練頭如何克 制蔡李佛，但至今翁先生避而不答！

江志強師傅


***

https://m.facebook.com/waikeung.mok....55430011297057


https://www.facebook.com/kamfai.chan...012785095413:0


https://www.facebook.com/kamfai.chan...14233471940011



Hung Sing Cheong

愚翁經常自欺欺人 ，顛倒是非，自己做過的事，為了功利，一時承認，但轉頭又否認，擅長誣陷害人，又扮受害者含血噴人，利用一 些無知者和貪飲貪食的人，制造謠言，一睇佢咁做人，就知注定是失敗者，要功夫，無功夫，要德行 無德行！。

[anerlich]

Members of the Hong Kong MA community thinks Wayne's writing/research is full of wrong info...

They even set up a Blog requesting evidence to support his theories...

Hendrik really picked a winner there, didn't he?

[GlennR]

Members of the Hong Kong MA community thinks Wayne's writing/research is full of wrong info...

They even set up a Blog requesting evidence to support his theories...



***

http://blogcity.me/blog/reply_blog_e...5037&id=681082



歷史真的假不了
2014/11/14 08:44:47
網誌分類: 生活






在武林裏講求名譽、誠信和忠義！相信沒有人反對我這句話。但到底有多少人會去遵守？又有多少人 會堅持去做？

電影《一代宗師》中，有一句名言：「人活在世上，有的活成了面子，有的活成了裏子，都是時事使然。」說的是 有人踏別人肩膀上位，亦有人用面子去處世辦事，所謂大紅花轎人抬人，有人成功就自然會有人失敗，總之因果 報應成王敗寇。據說從前的門派或武館為了面子，為求爭一口氣不惜單挑械鬥，那是歷代武林中都經常發生的事情 ，不出為奇！

最近香港武林瘋傳，有人寫了一篇有關自己門派歷史文章，觸犯了另一門派的事件。不滿意一方，在facebo ok及多個討論區，要求對方交代，並提出要與對方「以武會友」！

有關文章內容如下：太平天國期間，紅船多聚集反清義士，洪門、天地會、三合會及其他反清組織作南方根據地， 眾多南派拳術亦聚集於此，小練頭（在紅船稱蛇鶴拳）亦是其一。

同時太平天國武術總教練是蔡李佛創始人陳亨，所以大多叛徒都是蔡李佛高手，以長橋大馬見稱。

一八五三年紅船戲班武生李文茂帶領弟子數千人參與太平天國起義攻打廣州城，後因兩廣總督葉名琛堅守及英兵輔 助，才得保廣州城。半年後李文茂轉打廣西，並於翌年建大成國。一八五五年清廷反利用太平天國叛徒，火燒瓊花 會館及所有紅船，當時被殺人數超過八萬，廣東亦禁戲達十五年。及後紅船子弟計劃復仇，對付叛徒 。

在眾多南拳中，只有小練頭的埋身搏擊可與叛徒擅長的長橋大馬一較高下，但學習小練頭需時較長，故把一套一百 零八式長小練頭分拆三套有系統的詠春拳，可在短時間訓練埋身打法對付叛徒，使詠春與蔡李佛成為冤家至今，一 打長橋大馬，一打短橋窄馬，互相克制。

一八六四年，太平天國亡，及後戲班亦得以重開，八和會館亦繼成立，但已受控於滿清政府！這段歷史無人再提， 故過了一兩代人已被遺忘至今。

作者：翁XX」

筆者當然不能以耳代目，為求證實文章內容真假，我就約見了幾位知情人士，務求再深入了解一下！第一位是蛇鶴 詠春拳的莫偉強師傅，另一位是鴻勝蔡李的陳錦輝師傅。

看過這篇文章，我發現背景人物和歷史都錯誤百出！這位翁先生所發表文章的內容有兩點確實涉嫌觸犯了貶低別的 門派名譽！

下期轉錄出來和讀者們討論。文章刊出後以長橋大馬稱譽武林的門派，反應非常激烈，尤其是鴻勝蔡李佛的陳錦輝 師傅，他曾約見翁先生，並要求翁先生當面對質及希望友善性質以武會友，大家來交流引證蛇鶴詠春小練頭如何克 制蔡李佛，但至今翁先生避而不答！

江志強師傅


***

https://m.facebook.com/waikeung.mok....55430011297057


https://www.facebook.com/kamfai.chan...012785095413:0


https://www.facebook.com/kamfai.chan...14233471940011



Hung Sing Cheong

愚翁經常自欺欺人 ，顛倒是非，自己做過的事，為了功利，一時承認，但轉頭又否認，擅長誣陷害人，又扮受害者含血噴人，利用一 些無知者和貪飲貪食的人，制造謠言，一睇佢咁做人，就知注定是失敗者，要功夫，無功夫，要德行 無德行！。

Evidence to supports theories....... Who woulda thought

[Minghequan]

Jim Roselando:

吉姆，所以你能看懂中文嗎？

Really?


誰教你看中國人？

我猜這是亨德里克！

So was it?

How is Grandmaster Hendrik nowdays? I hope he is well.

Jim, so sorry 很抱歉 but I'd rather believe someone like Wayne Yiung who actually trains daily in Wing Chun then some one like Hendrik who likes to hear his own voice on Youtube!

[Jim Roselando]

Ronnie Gonad... wrote:

吉姆，所以你能看懂中文嗎？

Have many friends and teachers who do! Including people I work with... We all got a nice laugh while reading the feedback on Wayne's """Research"""..... JR


***

With regards to WY's research I think it is good for those reading it to hear others opinions.

So, not only was a blog set up to denounce Wayne's research but also a Hong Kong columnist published an article saying the info was bogus and don't forget to include the members of the HK CLF family that are also saying Wayne's info is bogus. Seems like a whole bunch of well known people disagree!

Blog Link:

http://blogcity.me/blog/reply_blog_e...5037&id=681082)

HK Columnist link:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

Hung Sing CLF Link:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

***

Here you can see another Sae Hok WC family member, Hung Sing CLF, Hong Kong Columnist & White Crane's Lee Kong all gathering to discuss:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater


***

Lastly, below is a small piece of some info that was posted online. If anyone wants to read the full piece just google search it and its easy to find...


A public proposal to Mr. Yung of Snake Crane Wing Chun by Hung Shing Choy Lee Fut Chan Kaam Fai lineage:


在FB家師陳錦輝師傅公開詢問翁先生有關蛇鶴詠春108式分拆三套拳用來克制蔡李佛之長橋大馬 問題，但翁生 從未正式作答，如翁生引用權威學者或書籍，大可直接講出該學者或書籍之名告訴家師,以釋家師之 疑惑，如翁生 話是其研究所得，亦請作出佐證，以解别人對你之疑，


In the Facebook, My sifu Chan Kaam Fai has publicly asked Mr. Yung to explain Mr. Yung's claim on "Snake Crane wing chun 108 move was separated into three sets in order to subdue the long bridge wide horse stance Choy Lee Fut."


However, Mr. Yung did not provided a formal reply.


If Mr. Yung is quoting any expert or known publication, Mr. Yung could directly state the sources to reply my sifu's question. If it is Mr. Yung personal research finding , please provide evidence to clarify the claim.......

[anerlich]

So, basically, you and Hendrik hooked up with Wayne a while back and publicised it here and all over the internet as some sort of revolutionary meeting of the inner circle of the transcendent minds, and after it all went pear-shaped with the resultant clash of the titanic egos, with him saying you guys are full of sh*t, you're now saying he's full of sh*t?

How unexpected!

Seems like a whole bunch of well known people disagree!

A whole lot of people disagree with Hendrik's and your schtick as well. BFD.

Being "well known", if that is in fact the case outside the strange circles you appear to move in - Ive never heard of any of these f*ckers - means sweet FA as far as credibility goes. Just look at the various celebrity endorsements for various bullsh!t that are going around. It's a logical fallacy called "appeal to authority".

None of your Facebook links work, BTW. I imagine on past form they'll just link to pics of a few fat Chinese guys sitting around eating.

We all got a nice laugh while reading the feedback on Wayne's """Research"""..... JR

Now you know how many forum members felt watching your "Wing Chun Revolution" video.

[Minghequan]

Well said Anerlich!

More "smoke & mirrors" from Grandmaster Hen****'s Number One Disciple Jimmy-boy Roselando!

[zuti car]

Hendrik said Jim Roselando knows museum address where one of the key evidence for his claim is held

http://www.qigongmaster.com/masterzh...emeiqigong.php

Hendrik never provided the address of that museum so I am asking Jim to give the address so I can directly verify existence of that book

[Minghequan]

You will be waiting an eternity as Jimmy-Boy won't provide the address because it doesn't exist! More "smoke & mirrors"

[zuti car]

I will contact museum of national history in Taipei and ask is such a book really exist . If it it does ,and books from 1200"s are extremely rare and well known to historians ,I believe i can obtain valid data about that book , including where it is kept . I hope i will gt an answer soon.

[Minghequan]

Please keep us posted on your research!

[Daniel Fong]

Jim, as a researcher, you are not honest enough to bring the whole fact out and selectively bringing those you like to say bad to sifu Yung ONLY. Are you really a serious WCK researcher ? I don't think so because you are not HONEST. You just want to achieve what you want, no matter it is right or not. Are you really PinSun WCK guy after GM Fung died ?


=================================================

Sifu Wayne Yung invited all Choy Li Fat people in the world in September to read all the papers written with Hendrik Santos to see any saying bad with Choy Li Fat. Some papers are working with Hendrik Santos, but only Sifu Wayne Yung was attacked by those CLF people. MOre, Hendrik was caught he allied with those people to attack Sifu Wayne Yung in China, in Taiwan and in Hong Kong. However, all were resolved by the truth.

https://www.facebook.com/wayne.yung....05103282128061

This link show the people grouped together attacking sifu Yung. However, Sifu Yung bring the links from KFO in Sepetember there to show how R.C. and H.S. are. They are totally disappeared.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3740...3444138462927/

================================================== =
Jim, Roselando, your Chinese should be good enough to understand how Sifu Yung replying to the attack from the columnist

http://www.am730.com.hk/column-237393

慎思明辨

《中庸•第二十章》中有幾句治學的名句，特意與大家參考一下：博學之，審問之，慎思之，明辨之，篤行之。大 意是知識是需要廣博地學習，要對學問詳細地詢問，要慎重地思考，要明白地辨別，要切實地力行。

近來，武健講場前幾期有篇關於詠春歷史的文章，一文激起千重浪，作為喜歡研究歷史的我，實在是又驚又喜。驚 的是作為專欄作家的我，除了確保文章內容 的可讀性，娛樂性之外，亦要確保分析評論文章不作人身攻擊，以史為據。喜的是原來不少讀者，特別是武術愛好 者，更是研究歷史真偽的行家，實在可喜可賀！

我去年與研習易金詠春及蔡李佛的涂福如先生研究整整一年有多的時間，研究出版的著作有幸約兩年前在各傳播媒 介傳開去，有些更遠至歐洲各地，翻譯成其他語言供外國同好品評。近年，我們更將研究所得傳至佛山歷史研究所 以及香港的南華文化研究中心作香港非物質文化遺產調查之用。

由於武術歷史一直不是主流歷史，在缺乏足夠的史料下，考據期間面對很多困難。但這仍不減我們的求真的心，所 以不能像牛頭角順嫂般的調查方法，不具科 學的隨意問一些練武之人便當得知數據，以訛傳訛，妄下定論。作為珍重歷史，特別是武術歷史的我，除了特意訪 問研究洪門歷史的台灣人士、各派武術名宿外，更 參考各類型的書藉，包括著名歷史學家羅爾綱撰寫的《太平天國史》、中國人民大學清史研究院秦寶琦教授撰寫的 《中國洪門史》及《洪門真史》以及著書於光緒十 六年的《蛇鶴詠春門秘》等，希望以略小綿力，盡力將大眾一直流傳的口述歷史考真。

當然，研究歷史有如瞎子摸象，如果有讀者有更確切的史實資料，特別是文字手稿而非又再次的口述歷史，有根有 據的將歷史重新還原，實在是歷史界的一大善舉，而且更貫切治學精神，慎思明辨！


================================================== =
Jim, do you check other sifu how to comment the Hung Shing CKF guy ?

From Iron Ring Master Ho Hung Sun

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

================================================== =

REad more about the Hung Sing CLF guy from other sifus.

https://www.facebook.com/joe.po.771/...76?pnref=story

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