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Thread: Technique vs. Courage

  1. #16
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    The cowardly lion had courage....

    ....I'm not sure who I'd say had technique though - maybe the wizard himself....maybe Toto.


    That is all. Happy Friday everyone!
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  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    Hey Team,

    I was reading about the Spartans in one of Plutarchs moral essays and came across an interesting quote;

    They appointed no masters to instruct their boys in wrestling, that they might contend not in sleights of art and little tricks, but in strength and courage


    I find this quite a thought provoking idea from arguably the greatest warriors of the ancient world. Rather than project my opinions on it, what do you think of this method of 'teaching'? Would you employ it for your sons?
    Execute the techniques at right timing and with proper strength every time.

    Refine them over time to perfection.

    That is kung and fu.


  3. #18
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    teaching technique first is good for milking your students because it makes it 10 times longer to learn.
    Last edited by bawang; 01-10-2015 at 12:12 PM.

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    I believe there is a hormonal and mental benefit to the training of strength and courage in that it results in a heightened arousal that may allow for accelerated uptake and better retention of information.


    mickey
    There is some very (heavy emphasis on very) limited information on glucocorticoid production and memory. To summarize, memory formation may be heightened when there is a presence of elevated cortisol in the system. However, memory recall is inhibited by the same. Further, it all seems to be complicated by a trend that for proper recall of the memory, the situation needs to approximate the conditions of its formation. You can see how this would complicate any matter trying to verify this.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    There is some very (heavy emphasis on very) limited information on glucocorticoid production and memory. To summarize, memory formation may be heightened when there is a presence of elevated cortisol in the system. However, memory recall is inhibited by the same. Further, it all seems to be complicated by a trend that for proper recall of the memory, the situation needs to approximate the conditions of its formation. You can see how this would complicate any matter trying to verify this.
    This explains the old school approach where the Sifu beats and yells at the student.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    This explains the old school approach where the Sifu beats and yells at the student.
    I think that just might be a cultural thing. That said, cultural evolution can trend with biology. The way this plays out is pretty intuitive. The more you pressure test yourself, the better you get. This just puts a potential mechanism to it, that's all. Spar often. Compete if you can. The more experience and the less stressed you are in that environment over time, the better your recall.

  7. #22
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    Better technique first. They've either had or know they will get their ass kicked good attempting to brawl against opposition. Technique was a game changer for me when I started applying it as early as grade school, without the tools you risk everything, especially against the sociopaths.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    I think that just might be a cultural thing. That said, cultural evolution can trend with biology.
    Absolutely. Cultural inheritance alongside of genetic. Chinese culture is all about enduring extreme harshness to become better.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo KungFu View Post
    The more experience and the less stressed you are in that environment over time, the better your recall.
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    3 second Death match, I'm going to try that one. No time to get lost in thinking, just do it!
    In addition to allowing no time to think, I structured the exercise to create continuous mental and physical stress, and didn't give them time to fixate on having won or lost. As soon as 3 seconds were up, they immediately started another 3 second countdown. This continued until they were too tired to move.

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    We used the circles at the center of the basketball court.

    Each person had to start with one foot inside the small circle when I called "Ready!"

    As soon as I started counting "1-2-3!", they had to attack to take out the other guy with a clean combo before I finished counting.

    Kicks, punches, sweeps, takedowns, and chokes allowed. And only combinations were allowed. Single shots mean you failed.

    Running, stepping, or getting knocked out of the big circle meant you fell into "burning lava" or "sharpened spikes" and died.

    If neither one landed a solid clean combo, both lost.

    If someone lost by a particularly poor response or "falling on the spikes" they were told, "FAIL!!! Start again!"

    If it was a draw, they were told, "LOSE! LOSE! Start again!"

    If someone got a clean win, they were told, "WINNER!!! Start again!"

    So it would go nonstop like this:

    "Ready, 1-2-3!"

    *clean win*

    "Andrew winner! Start again!"

    "Ready, 1-2-3!"

    *knocked out of the circle*

    "Andrew, FAIL!!! Start again!"

    "Ready, 1-2-3!"

    *no score*

    "LOSE! LOSE! Start again!"

    No time to dwell on the win or having gotten nailed. Just continuous focus to explode in and take out the other guy.

    After they were too tired to continue, I would debrief them on their mistakes and successful attacks.

  9. #24
    Greetings,

    -N-,

    With that level of heightened arousal, is there a carry over into regular sparring/other training or, is that level of explosiveness/aggression/technical expression diminished until the next time that drill is used?


    mickey

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    -N-,

    With that level of heightened arousal, is there a carry over into regular sparring/other training or, is that level of explosiveness/aggression/technical expression diminished until the next time that drill is used?


    mickey
    Absolutely carried over. That was the whole point for coming up with that exercise.

    That become their normal context for engaging their opponent.

    Praying Mantis characteristic is explosive, aggressive, with blitz combinations.

    I wanted to establish that single-minded determination in them to continue until they took out the other guy regardless of whether they got hit or they hit the other person.

    The first time one of the students went to spar outsiders, they asked him to lighten up on the attacks. He didn't understand what that meant and had to ask me how to do that. He was still a kid, and the others were adults including blackbelts.

    When he sparred with me, I always had him go all out speed and power. It wasn't a problem for me because I could counter. I'd let him get close to hitting me, but would avoid or neutralize the attack and get him first. Being that close to getting me made him even more determined to win. For kids, it's like playing a video game on a super hard level, and they just keep trying because they almost got it.

    Another student came back from Basic Cadet Training and told me that kung fu class was harder than Basic.

    There was a picture of him and the other cadets crawling on their bellies in the mud under barbed wire. He was the only one in the pic smiling, and looked like he was having a great time.

  11. #26
    Hi -N-,

    I was expecting that response. Thank you for sharing that.

    mickey

  12. #27
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    -N-, those are some excellent practices.

    Not the same, but back in my Kenpo days, an exercise my teacher incorporated (not every day) was 2-on-1 and 3-on-1 intense sparring. It was pretty much the 2 or 3 would try their best to beat down the 1. Usually he would unexpectedly spring it at the end of sparring, when people were tired. It was also incorporated at the end of tests, where the 1 was already dead tired and the 2 and 3 were fresh.

    It wasn't about technique. By then, you only had instinct, actions/reactions, constant movement, and the will to fight. Simply covering up or running were not acceptable. These experiences and the mindset they developed actually saved my life several years later, when 3 men attempted to abduct me into a large black car during my first week living in Taiwan. In fact, the actual incident was much easier than the training. And it wasn't for lack of the men trying. I also remember more skills coming out, but in all honesty I couldn't recall specific ones, because things happened very fast. I would be suspicious of anyone who can recount, blow-by-blow, any real fight against multiple attackers.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 01-12-2015 at 11:15 AM.

  13. #28
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    Courage may be taught as a child is taught to speak. ~Euripides

    What do you suppose he meant by this?
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    Courage may be taught as a child is taught to speak. ~Euripides
    Well, children learn to speak by imitating, having lots of people around them who are speaking and then they burble along in the same rhythm.

    I suppose he means people can learn courage by being surrounded by it and given the opportunity to participate in it. So we must ourselves be paradigms of courageous behaviour and offer the uninitiated opportunities to be courageous instead of coddling them and being overprotective and denying them responsibilities.

    The opposite then would be teaching them to be weak and cowardly by creating a society in which seemingly no one is accountable for anything, in which people are taught to be mentally crushed and seek compensation when they are merely verbally abused, a society in which rights are provided without prerequisite responsibilities and cannot be lost, where people are not ashamed to take something for nothing, where everyone, everyone is afraid to say what they actually think and believe mistakenly that virtue means being as soft and accepting as possible all the time.

    Might have gone a bit off point there.
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 01-13-2015 at 07:22 AM.
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  15. #30
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    "I suppose he means people can learn courage by being surrounded by it and given the opportunity to participate in it."


    Yes, that is what is meant. Essentially, exposure.
    If we do not expose ourselves to opportunity to become courageous, then it is unlikely we ever shall be.
    If we spend our time in training and our experience resides in our head only, we castrate ourselves.


    Get out in the world and see if you are courageous. Be in a club that tests your mettle.
    Avoid waxing philosophical when you could be working.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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