Common Problems in 2 Man Forms

[-N-]

Good examples here.

[sanjuro_ronin]

2 man forms were originally done to develop counters and counter to counters BUT they were limited, typically, to one of 2 maybe 3 moves because practicality was crucial.
When performance took over it became, well, a performance.
Some of the old koryu systems like the Yagyu Shinkage ryu and the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu use 2 man forms as a huge part of their training and they are a long sequence of moves ( to build stamina) BUT the moves are "broken up" as mini-sequences and they tend to be very practical ( for their intended purpose).

[mickey]

Greetings,

I remember seeing a demo that featured a weapons contact done with intent. After the first section, the Sifu noticed that they weren't going light for the demo and said, "If you want to kill each other, then kill each other!", adding to the drama. The participants made through it to the end with no injuries and one broken weapon. The silence of the audience suggested that this was not what they were used to seeing. I knew both guys and that was how they trained.

mickey

[-N-]

Greetings,

I remember seeing a demo that featured a weapons contact done with intent. After the first section, the Sifu noticed that they weren't going light for the demo and said, "If you want to kill each other, then kill each other!", adding to the drama. The participants made through it to the end with no injuries and one broken weapon. The silence of the audience suggested that this was not what they were used to seeing. I knew both guys and that was how they trained.

mickey

I was told a story about one of my seniors. He was learning 3 section staff against spear. My teacher was his partner for the form while teaching him at the same time.

The senior student got part way through the routine, and finally asked not to continue because he was concerned about getting seriously injured.

[mickey]

Greetings -N-,

That was too funny. What you shared showed how much times has changed. I remember how sadistic and hardened people used to be in the USA. When I was in college, I gave a presentation on the level of neglect found in mental institutions. I made reference to how a body had been found in an apartment and that th body had stiffened to the point where they had to break the body to put it in the body bag. I was expecting major laughs and giggles. All I got was a loud chorus of "ULLLLL"

Barehand contacts, when properly done, really works toward strengthening the body in a way that weights do not.

mickey

[bawang]

a proper 2 man form

[mickey]

Greetings -N-

I would call what you posted a precursor to the more common 2 man forms we see, often called line drills: the difference is that there is so much more conveyed in each line, to call them drills would be insulting.

I really enjoy the squatting legwork. It gives me that impression that either it was in preparation for the wearing of battle armor or that it is supposed to be practiced with a weighted vest (or the armor itself) so that the practitioner would be combat fit for the real thing. Can you imagine just 10 years of training like that? Legendary strength, Brother!

mickey

[-N-]

a proper 2 man form

Nice weapon drills.

I've had students wear mma type gloves for practicing simultaneous hand attacks in the disarm motions.

Body of the weapon does an expulsion to disarm and attacks the hands on the way in. Point of the weapon attacks the opponent's face/body.

Our daggers vs. spear and our broadsword vs. spear both have some nice moves where the person grapples the spear, gets inside his range, and cuts the guy's fingers on the way in to cutting the body.

[-N-]

I remember seeing a demo that featured a weapons contact done with intent. After the first section, the Sifu noticed that they weren't going light for the demo and said, "If you want to kill each other, then kill each other!", adding to the drama.

Reminds me of one time after learning my first two person form.

My teacher looked at us and said, "Like mad dogs fighting." He didn't mean it in a good way, and he turned around and walked away with a disgusted look on his face.

We were fast and aggressive, but tense and with no skill. Somehow we thought we were doing good.

[-N-]

I would call what you posted a precursor to the more common 2 man forms we see, often called line drills: the difference is that there is so much more conveyed in each line, to call them drills would be insulting.

Oops, I did call them drills. No insult intended. Definately a lot of skills there.

I have no problem with drills. If our teacher taught us a form, he had us drill the short sequences from the form until we could use them. That was the point of having the form. Similar to what Sanjuro_ronin said.

From Praying Mantis 14 Roads, how many can actually do even just the kick and footwork correctly in a fight?

[bawang]

Greetings -N-

I would call what you posted a precursor to the more common 2 man forms we see, often called line drills: the difference is that there is so much more conveyed in each line, to call them drills would be insulting.

this is not a "precursor". this is what a real 2 man form looks like.

[Kellen Bassette]

this is not a "precursor". this is what a real 2 man form looks like.

I notice you always show these style weapons forms when the talk turns to two man forms. Is there any traditional empty hand two man forms you consider the "realz"?

[David Jamieson]

choreographed sets of movements that give an idea of the style and it's workings.

It's a bit much to put anything more onto it I think.

Co-ordination is instilled.

[bawang]

I notice you always show these style weapons forms when the talk turns to two man forms. Is there any traditional empty hand two man forms you consider the "realz"?

no they were created for entertainment

[pazman]

I really enjoy the squatting legwork. It gives me that impression that either it was in preparation for the wearing of battle armor or that it is supposed to be practiced with a weighted vest (or the armor itself) so that the practitioner would be combat fit for the real thing. Can you imagine just 10 years of training like that? Legendary strength, Brother!

mickey

To stand or to squat depends on the position of the spearman in the formation, or the action of the formation itself.