Historical Data on Han Tong

[Tainan Mantis]

As a subset of questions from the thread on Hua Quan

Shaolin tong bi quan origin, as you know, comes from general Han Tong's Tong Bi quan of the Song dynasty...

...it's is said to have been created under the supervision of abbot FuJu (Song dynasty, 960s AD) or FuYu (Yuan dynasty, 1200s AD). about the 'special' style, i'm unsure if it refers to one specific style. many lineages pick up a form and call it 'special.'

This is something I have been looking into for some time now. Do you happen to have a source for either of these quotes outside of Shaolin's encyclopedia?

As a minor side note, Han Tong is really of the Zhou dynasty. He was killed at the founding of the Song which was later recorded in the official history of the Song 宋史 as follows:

After Emperor Shi-Zongs' death in mid-959, he remained in a key position in the court of the six-year-old Zhou Emperor Gongdi and appeared to have been one of the strong men behind the throne. Thus, when Zhao Kuangyin seized the throne early in 960, Han rode hurriedly home from the Palace in order to seek help. He was attacked by Zhao Kuangyins' supporter Wang Yan-Sheng 王彥升 and killed together with his wife and son.

[Tainan Mantis]

This is the original Chinese from History of the Song Volume 484 (宋史/卷484) where I got the above English quote

太祖奉詔北征，至陳橋為諸軍推戴。通在殿閣，聞有變，惶遽而歸。軍校王彥升遇通
於路，策馬逐之，通馳入其第，未及闔門，為彥升所害，妻子皆死。

[SHemmati]

it's actually not the Encyclopedia, the Encyclopedia quotes these from an older manual, "Shaolin quan pu." this quan pu, meaning kung fu manual, is the book that survived the 1928 fire of the Shaolin temple. if needed, i can tell more about it.
besides this Shaolin quan pu, a praying mantis kung fu manual from the 1700s tells this same story of Han Tong and other masters. do you have Sal Canzonieri's book? if not i can read you some related paragraphs of it here. however, this praying mantis manual is likely to have taken this story somehow, directly or indirectly, from the Shaolin quan pu. this Shaolin quan pu was first written the same time this gathering of the masters occurred in the 960s AD, the early Song dynasty.

...created under the supervision of abbot FuJu (Song dynasty, 960s AD) or FuYu (Yuan dynasty, 1200s AD). ...

here you've made a wrong quote of mine. this was in reference to Shaolin kan jia quan, which some say was created by FuJu and some say by FuYu, and this FuJu and FuYu are 2 totally different persons from 2 totally different times. Han Tong and his story definitely occurred around the 960s, the time of FuJu.

[Tainan Mantis]

this Shaolin quan pu was first written the same time this gathering of the masters occurred in the 960s AD, the early Song dynasty.

I have serious doubts about the existence of such a book. If you have a link to an original Chinese source I would like to see it. I have not yet gotten Sals book.
In the pursuit of what was recorded by who and when I have spent more than a few years tracking down and tracing every source of pre-Qing martial arts books.

If there is such a book as Shaolin Quanpu (少林拳譜) I would expect to find it in serious historical works such as Lin Boyuan's Zhong Guo Gu Dai Wu Shu (中國古代武術) or in Zhong Guo Gu Dian Wu Xue Mi J (中國古典武學秘籍錄), to name just a few.

In English there is Meir Shahar's work The Shaolin Monastery
In Brian Kennedy's book Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey He quotes a list of the twelve most important historical martial art books of ancient China and it is not listed there either.

Shaolin Quanpu shows up on Baike which is a website with, I think, very little oversight in the facts of the information.

That article starts off like this

Shaolin Quan Pu is a book authored by Shaolin's Abbot Fu Ju from the Song
dynasty. He summarizes the essence of martial art styles from before the
Song Dynasty.

That sounds too good to be true.

It has been handed down to a passionate enthusiast of martial arts named
Zhao Zuoxiang in Chi Feng City of Inner Mongolia. It is Fu Ju's compilation
of Eighteen Families of fist and weapons.....

This does not sound credible.

I believe that promoting a false book as true ultimately has a negative effect on the desire to for us to propagate martial arts to the next generation.

If there is a discussion on Song era martial arts books it should be about Record of Wrestling (Jiaoli Ji 角力記), accepted and listed by martial arts historians.

I had originally hoped you had referred to a record of Han Tong in the Official Record of the Zhou, prior to the Song.

[RenDaHai]

I seem to remember there was a book that was a handwritten copy of Shaolin temples martial arts archives written down just a short time before the fire. The book itself is not old but is copied from old sources, themselves copied from earlier ones.

The Encyclopedia is not trustworthy, some stuff seems to be just plain made up. Though some things I attribute to confusion, even more modern forms will use the names of old ones and history gets mixed up. However where old Poems are reproduced these will be genuine, it is only the historical introductions I take some issue with.

The chance of finding a handwritten Song dynasty manuscript on Kung fu is small now. I think the better thing to focus on would be to find the QuanPu and GeJue that have been passed down in various wushu families and analyse the language used to try to date them (the paper they are written on is not old, they were periodically copied). But it would require the skills of a serious native scholar.

Shaolin temple burned for many days. Many things were taken out, these things have not all surfaced yet.

[RenDaHai]

On a side note Last year the Shaolin temple released a HUGE new encyclopedia with MANY volumes, but its costs 50,000 yuan (like $7000)

I don't know whats in it, I wasn't rich enough to even look, but it seems to be lots of direct scanned pictures of old texts. There was definitely kungfu in there, but I don't know what else.

I just thought this might contain the source info.

[SHemmati]

I have serious doubts about the existence of such a book. If you have a link to an original Chinese source I would like to see it.

sure. it's fortunately been recently published. you can get it from here in 8 volumes: jd.com: Shaolin Quan pu (isbn for vol.1: 9787500937944).
to see other volumes, search 少林拳谱 in the website.

In the pursuit of what was recorded by who and when I have spent more than a few years tracking down and tracing every source of pre-Qing martial arts books.

If there is such a book as Shaolin Quanpu (少林拳譜) I would expect to find it in serious historical works such as Lin Boyuan's Zhong Guo Gu Dai Wu Shu (中國古代武術) or in Zhong Guo Gu Dian Wu Xue Mi J (中國古典武學秘籍錄), to name just a few.

In English there is Meir Shahar's work The Shaolin Monastery
In Brian Kennedy's book Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey He quotes a list of the twelve most important historical martial art books of ancient China and it is not listed there either.

this is quite natural. very few scholars know about original Shaolin temple manuals. before abbot Miaoxing, all these manuals were kept super secret. just before the fire of 1928, Miaoxing gave some copies of a few manuals to some of his disciples and those got published. this one was very important but burnt in the fire. a long time later it was found out that a monk Yongxiang (永祥) had copied all or at least most parts of this quan pu. those copied parts were later given to several disciples to be kept, and about 1980, on his request, the copies were returned to him, to be given to his most trusted disciple, Shi Deqian, the compiler of the Shaolin encyclopedia. this text was first written in the 960s, under supervision of monk FuJu, but was updated generation to generation. in addition, i'm not sure that this published version is exactly the copied that Deqian got from Yongxiang, they may have been tampered with in some ways. not sure. i don't know where the original copies are now.

Shaolin Quanpu shows up on Baike which is a website with, I think, very little oversight in the facts of the information.

That article starts off like this

Shaolin Quan Pu is a book authored by Shaolin's Abbot Fu Ju from the Song
dynasty. He summarizes the essence of martial art styles from before the
Song Dynasty.

That sounds too good to be true.

It has been handed down to a passionate enthusiast of martial arts named
Zhao Zuoxiang in Chi Feng City of Inner Mongolia. It is Fu Ju's compilation
of Eighteen Families of fist and weapons.....

this manual for sure. should have been copied several times during its history. but the only one i know about is Deqian's manuals. Zhao Zhuoxiang! so there's another copy.

I had originally hoped you had referred to a record of Han Tong in the Official Record of the Zhou, prior to the Song.

it depends on what you want to find out about. Han Tong's personal life or his martial art. his life, if had ever been recorded, should be related to Zhou or early Song dynasty records, this is however, irrelevant to martial arts and i personally haven't seen anything other than some short quotes. but about his martial arts, the right place is Shaolin temple and its texts. they don't write about his life, but they inherited his martial art via the early Song dynasty generals who were in the same Zhou dynasty army as him and they gave his martial style to Shaolin temple, which is still kept and taught in the temple. however, Shaolin temple texts are not real historical document in that these texts have been updated from generation to generation. however, in his special case, about Han Tong's martial art, there enough reason to say the Shaolin quan pu is accurate, because a manual of the 1700s tells the same story, with the difference that Shaolin quan pu calls Han tong's style 'Tong Bi quan,' while this 1700s manual calls it 'Tong Bei quan.' no other difference. both tell the same.

[SHemmati]

I have not yet gotten Sals book.

this is some part of text i got from Sal:

Origin of Other Tongbi Quan styles
The earliest written reference to ‘Tongbi’ is found in texts dating back to the Song Dynasty (960-1279). The text mentions that the first Song Emperor, Taizu (太祖) Zhao Kuangyin (赵匡胤) (927-976), fought three battles ending in the surrender of General Han Tong (韩通), who had used his Tongbi technique in battle (Gu, 1997; Xi, 1985). This was at the very end of the Five Dynasties (907-960) era. His Tongbi Quan was another name for military long fist combat that was done ‘through the arms” with a “pigua” like downwards and then upwards chopping motion (as in sword fighting).
This General Han Tong was indeed a real person, written about in the History of the Songhistory book. He was a land army general in the (post –Tang dynasty) Zhou army along with General Zhao Kuangyin. Han Tong was a general guarding the gates of Mulingguan. Interestingly, the area he guarded lies in present-day Shandong Province. He was considered a great fighter. He was killed defending the Zhou Dynasty child Emperor Gongdi, even though all the other generals had rebelled and decided to make Zhao the new emperor (becoming known as Song Taizu). News of the rebellion had reached the court and chaos erupted. The only person who provided some resistance was General Han Tong, but he was killed by one of Kuangyin’s generals when he reached home. He was buried with great honors by new Emperor Zhao Kuangyin.
Another legend from the Song Dynasty era states that General Han Tong had participated in a Lei Tai (platform)
contest in the capital city of Kaifeng and had defeated Wang Lang, who later became the founder of Tanglang Quan. After leaving the fighting arena, Wang saw a brave praying mantis attacking the wheels of oncoming carts with its “saber-like” arms, giving him the idea of developing a Mantis imitating martial art method.
Another legend, popular among a few groups of practitioners, erroneously claims Tongbi was created by Chen Tuan (陈抟) in the early Song era.
...
Hantong’s Tongbi Quan from just before the Song dynasty era that was practiced by the military and by Shaolin martial monks of that time.
...
The names of the 18 methods from the Shaolin source (Sal means 'Shaolin quan pu') are:
1. Taizu Chang Quan Qi (起) Shou (Ancestral Long Fist Boxing Rising Hands)
2. Han Tong’s Tong Bi Wei You (Through Arm Serves Excellently)
...
In the Praying Mantis Boxing Manual(Tanglang Quanpu), recorded in the late 1700s, the unknown author provides this list (...):
1. In the beginning there was “Long-range Boxing” (Chang Quan) style of emperor Taizu.
2. “Through the Back” (Tongbei) boxing of Master Han Tong’s considered parental.
...

[Tainan Mantis]

This General Han Tong was indeed a real person, written about in the History of the Songhistory book. .... Han Tong was a general guarding the gates of Mulingguan.

This comes from what source? Shaolin Quan Pu? or Sal or where?
I am curious because I have spent quite some time translating this document of Han Tong at Mu-Ling Guan and his three battles with Kuangyin. I thought that this information was unpublished.

I wrote about it under an article called Han Tong's White Ape Boxing

It was known as Beating Han Tong at Muling Pass (Muling Guan Shang Da Han Tong 穆陵關上打韓通).

This document opens with:

I am Han Tong. My native birth place is Muling Pass of Shandong. Since I was young I have been good at contending with others in fighting and wrestling. My pair of fists can overthrow a ferocious tiger and my feet can knock down a qilin 麒麟.

[SHemmati]

Sal. Sal has written it, and in my text there's no mention of the source.

i did read your super interesting article 'Han Tong's White Ape Boxing' word by word, so epic!

[SHemmati]

a question. you practice mantis style. then why have you concentrated on Han Tong? because of the fight between Han Tong and Wang Lang?

[Tainan Mantis]

I would like to answer your questions in more detail, but first I have a favor to ask.

I really would like to find the source of this information.

this is some part of text i got from Sal:

Han Tong was a general guarding the gates of Mulingguan.

Otherwise I will have to assume that I am the source of this information.
The above was written by me from gathering facts from a source of several original books non martial arts books included. I have all the sources and facsimiles of recent existing copies of this information.

This has not been reported or discovered by any Chinese historian that I know of starting with or including the most famous and well known,
Lin Boyuan, Tang Hao and Ma Mingda.

Is there another source of the above information besides me?

[SHemmati]

i don't know. this draft text i have doesn't have any proper referencing scheme. anyway, there's a general bibliography on Tong Bi and Tong Bei quan at the ned of the book. if you want i can copy the list here. however, you better directly message Sal himself, he's a user of this forum. you may have lots of info to exchange on that.

[Tainan Mantis]

Thank you Shem.
I took your advice and contacted Sal directly. He has explained in private message that his information on Han Tong at Muling Guan is from various sources.

[Tainan Mantis]

a question. you practice mantis style. then why have you concentrated on Han Tong? because of the fight between Han Tong and Wang Lang?

Han Tong's martial art is part of almost all arts from Henan to the far Northern regions of China. It is also a main part of Praying Mantis.
There was no fight between Wang Lang and Han Tong. They never met and are not from the same period of history.

Han Tong was a key figure of the Later Zhou and there are several pre-Ming sources of information on him, great details are provided for where he went, who he followed and what he did.

Later he became part of the story telling folklore and eventually he was portrayed on stage in the palace. Whoever wrote the Shaolin Authentics was familiar with a portion of Han Tong's history that was popular during the Ming dynasty. Pretty solid evidence that Shaolin Authentics is a late Ming or more likely a post Ming document.