8 section brocade question -> Draw the bow to shoot the hawk

[herb ox]

Now why anybody would want to shoot a hawk, I don't know - usually I'm pretty stoked to see one circling high overhead....

Anyway - looking for some input from you Baduanjin practitioners out there regarding the "draw the bow" movement (2nd movement in the form usually) - how do you coordinate your breath? Do you inhale as you "draw the bow" or do you inhale first and then exhale as you draw the bow?

I've experimented a bit with both ways and found different results - but I'd like to hear from you folks out there what your experiences have been and if you have a rationale as to why you breathe in a particular way.

Here's a youtube link that shows the first two movements of the form - it's the second one... btw does anybody know who this chap is?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller???

One,

herb ox

[GeneChing]

The actual quanpu in chinese is zuoyou lagong ru she diao (左右拉弓似射鵰). The last character, diao (鵰), is translated as golden eagle, sometimes as vulture. It's distinct from ying (鷹) which is the term we use for Eagle Claw in Kung Fu; ying is also conventionally translated as hawk or falcon. Unfortunately, my Mandarin isn't good enough to get at the heart of the issue here.

I do two versions of this move in my practice. The first is stationary in horse stance and it is how I originally learned it at Shaolin from Shi Decheng. The second shifts from reverse bow and is how Shi Yantuo did it. I've seen similar forms with GM Tu Jin-Sheng's version. I exhale during the bow pulling part, which is how I was taught from each of these masters, plus a few others.

I've merged most of the brocade threads into this one: Baduanjin-(8-section-brocade). I may merge this one too someday, but we'll see how it works as a stand alone thread for now.

[mickey]

Greetings herb ox, long time.

I learned to inhale while drawing/pulling the bow. There is a natural contraction in the arms and across the back as you reach full inhalation. The exhale begins once you have released the bow and continues until you have returned your hands to their original starting position.

To add, I have learned to count each repetition of each exercise separately or to count both sides, left and right, as one

mickey

[mickey]

More,

I do not know who that guy is.

his alignment during that exercise is off. The elbow rising above the shoulder* is pretty new to me. There is no contraction of the muscles of the arms and shoulders which really defeats a lot of benefit from the exercise. I have seen from shoulder level to arm drawn back in chamber. The back and arms are supposed to benefit and they are not.

mickey

*I have seen that once and in that "once" the practitioner was leaning, maintaining the plane of contraction.

[herb ox]

Greetings Gene and Mickey - indeed it has been awhile, much has happened since I last posted on the forum here. At the time I was in the midst of grad school and things were really intense trying to balance study time and working - in essence I was on the computer average 14 hours a day and felt the need to break from the screen. Life is intense in a different way now, but I now revel in a brief moment when I can log on as I am no longer a computer jockey...

I've been revisiting my practice in Baduanjin with great interest, as my body has recently been facing some challenges - namely, not enough vigorous exercise and not enough sleep, as our newborn son wakes every couple of hours through the night Anyhow, my usual qigong routine, while performed standing is more of a nei dan routine and I was feeling the need for more external, more physical routine to keep the body lithe and strong. I learned Baduanjin from one of the Shaolin monks, though my memory may need some help - it was either Shi Decheng or Shi Xinghao back around 2004 or 2005 - Gene was there so he might remember better than me.

Anyhow, the years have left me with questions on how to perform the routine - like the breathing during this technique... I realize the exercise can be performed in various ways, yielding different results. I'm convinced there are more RIGHT ways to do the technique than wrong.

There is no contraction of the muscles of the arms and shoulders which really defeats a lot of benefit from the exercise. ... ...

This is another question of mine - there is a subtle balance necessary here - too much tension blocks the flow of Qi and creates stagnation, not enough tension and the exercise feels "empty". Personally, I like to emphasize tension at the end of the motion to emphasize the tendons and ligaments.

Have either of you experimented much with varying the amount of tension used while executing the movements and what did you notice?

Happy Friday,

herb ox

[GeneChing]

Shaolin Warrior Monks Seminar
The Tiger Claw Foundation supported two Shaolin Warrior Monks, Shi Decheng and Shi Xingwei, for three instructional seminars in Shaolin Basics (Jibengong) Shaolin Form (Tongbei) and Shaolin Internal Power (Baduanjin), February 27th and 28th, 2004, Fremont CA USA. In cooperation with Russbo.com, USAOmei.com and KungFuMagazine.com.

When I'm feeling martial, I practice this movement like a Hung Gar Kiu Sau. When I'm not feeling as martial due to an injury, an illness, a hangover , or whatever, I practice it more softly. That's what I like most about the brocade - you can modify it to fit your daily needs.

Qi is vital so qigong must be a vital practice. If it is locked into one rigid way of doing things, it stagnates. Of course, there's a caveat there in that there are definitely some wrong ways to practice. But the brocade is so widely practiced that there are so many variations, most of which all have their internal validity. Given so vast of an archive, your own practice can have a lot of plasticity.