Gary Lam & Jin Young(chinaboxer) controversy?

[JKWingchun]

I think it is a crock of shi-------t. He should be proud of his student not jealous over fame and the money he made. I love how these TOP DOGS always do that. I trained him. He sucks. He does everything wrong. Well, then I guess you suck as a teacher and should go flip burgers because what else do you know how to do? Obviously not teach well because you say Jin basically sucks. Heard that same crap 10 times from other guys. My student sucks. A week ago you were telling everyone he is the best you ever had.

Jins were some of the best Wing Chun youtube videos I have ever seen.

But again, Jin can do what ever he likes with his videos. Jin was great!

Yikes I feel like I opened a can of worms by posting this, I can assure you Hawkins was not jealous of Jin in any way, if you met the guy you would totally understand, he is a very humble low key individual.

I think that what is more likely at play is an old school Chinese respect issue, Hawkins was very progressive with his teaching and method, but he still definitely had that old school Hong Kong mentality.

Still I do not know the whole story, I am just sharing what I heard a year ago.

[boxerbilly]

I'm sorry. Im showing disrespect to you teacher and Jin's. You are right. I don't know. I was not there and it may be just as you suggest. The same as Hawkins went through. Ask first. I believe Jin is American. He might not have understood that as I don't.

Again, I apologize. I have nothing against Hawkins. I think the guy is great at what he does and from the little I have seen of him. LIke I said, I over react. Maybe to emotional especially when it is not even my concern. Jin just seems a really nice guy and I took it Hawkins was the aggressor. Sorry.

[JKWingchun]

I'm sorry. Im showing disrespect to you teacher and Jin's. You are right. I don't know. I was not there and it may be just as you suggest. The same as Hawkins went through. Ask first. I believe Jin is American. He might not have understood that as I don't.

Again, I apologize. I have nothing against Hawkins. I think the guy is great at what he does and from the little I have seen of him. LIke I said, I over react. Maybe to emotional especially when it is not even my concern. Jin just seems a really nice guy and I took it Hawkins was the aggressor. Sorry.

Thank you for the apology,

Hawkins is not my teacher, my time at his school was very very short, but I do have much respect for him, he seemed like a great humble man.

Much respect to Jin as well.

If anyone is interested in Hawkins Cheung and his school, I suggest watching this video by Phil Morris, great insight into the man and his school.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_4Sj0uvGCI

[JKWingchun]

Does this mean that Jin is no longer training with Hawkins & if so, is there anyone who is his current sifu these days.

When I was at Hawkins in 2013 Jin was defiantly referred to in the past tense, so he was probably long gone by then

[JKWingchun]

It does sound like Jin Young took down his videos because Hawkins Cheung was unhappy about it.

Did Jin do this simply because he didn't want to offend his sifu?

Does this mean that Jin is no longer training with Hawkins & if so, is there anyone who is his current sifu these days.

I don't know why Jin took down the videos, the information I got about him and SIfu Hawkins was told to me a year ago, I think Jin pulled his videos fairly recently.

I don't know that Jin is training under any sifu at the moment, there are some pretty big names out here so if he shows up to someone's school people would get wind of it.

I know that Jin often goes to wing chun and martial arts meetup groups out here.

[JKWingchun]

Maybe instead of "controversy", I should have used the word "issue" instead, and yeah, a Google search didn't provide me with any info, so I started this thread hoping someone could shed more light, because like you, I also enjoyed Jin's videos.

Maybe Izzo will blog about it? Probably wouldn't hurt to post a comment on the two videos and see if anyone replies with information, I am curious to know what is going on.

[boxerbilly]

Maybe it is better we don't know. Maybe better not to ask. Some other hot head jerk similar to me may write stupid stuff he has no right to as well. It's between Jin and Hawkins. Let them tell it if they choose. That is probably best.

[Phil Redmond]

I knew the story but didn't want to post it. I'm glad someone else did. Anyway, what is being said is that Jin wasn't with Hawkins long enough to teach Hawkins' Wing Chun.

[Vajramusti]

I knew the story but didn't want to post it. I'm glad someone else did. Anyway, what is being said is that Jin wasn't with Hawkins long enough to teach Hawkins' Wing Chun.

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Common problem in wing chun. Name dropping and piggy backing.

[Buddha_Fist]

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Common problem in wing chun. Name dropping and piggy backing.

Isn't it also a problem that people are quite too often only considered to be competent as long as they stay with their teacher until infinity and beyond (even though their teacher may have only trained a few years with his own teacher)? Or that the development of their skills stops once you leave a particular teacher?

Far too much BS in Ving Tsun, and only a small percentage can actually fight.

[LFJ]

GREAT ! We can't watch them anymore because Hawkins is mad Jin is making more money than he is. Im sure Jin PAID his dollars and dues. NOT GOOD ENOUGH !

A total 8 months of cumulative instructed training time is not enough "dollars and dues" to become a Youtube sifu and name (represent) Hawkin's Wing Chun without permission. That was the issue; a beginner representing his Kung Fu.

[zuti car]

Same old story , every time when student gets more public attention than a teacher, teacher will talk trash about the student . You are good only when you follow the teacher , pay the class fee, membership fee and who knows what else and as long as you are in teacher's shadow , we have seen this so many times

[boxerbilly]

A total 8 months of cumulative instructed training time is not enough "dollars and dues" to become a Youtube sifu and name (represent) Hawkin's Wing Chun without permission. That was the issue; a beginner representing his Kung Fu.

I apologized. I'll do so again. Sorry to have disrespected Hawkin's. 8 months or 8 years. Jin was great ! A testament to his teachers teaching abilities. Better advertisement than money can buy. Last time, I F---ucked up. I had no place making those comments. I am sorry.

[anerlich]

A student and instructor fell out. Wow. Won't be the first time or the last. This happens fairly frequently for all sorts of reasons, and sometimes you can't really blame either person involved. I've had good friends and formerly allied instructors in associated schools (not Wing Chun) that split for reasons outside of my and most people involved's control, and been forced to make choices I didn't want to have to make.

I've seen associated instructors have different opinions on published videos, including who should be the narrator, who should be be the demonstrator and who the dummy, etc.

I wouldn't use someone's name like it sounds like what happened here without getting their blessing first.

If it doesn't involve you personally, don't waste energy on it. Go train.

[Subitai]

Chinaboxer took down all his Wing Chun videos and has put up 8 or so new videos that are not supposed to be Wing Chun specific.

Dominick Izzo mentioned in passing on one of his own videos that there had been some issue involving Gary Lam & Jin Young, but didn't say any more than that.

When asked by various people why he took his old videos down, Jin Young's explanation has been brief & not convincing to me, that his reason of "my fighting style has changed so much since I put those videos up & I didn't want to confuse anyone", is all there is to the matter.

I remember an older thread: http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/...ing-Chun-Blast

Mabe if Jin kept experiencing stuff like that vs taller opponents....mabe that might have spurred his interest in changing himself.

After all, we're all learning or at least we should be.