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Thread: the most secret skill in kung fu

  1. #46
    Okay lets me ask this.

    Is there anyone here that managed to get that 300 lbs bench? 500lbs squat and the same or higher with the deadlift? Or anyone just have some pet lift that you were ungodly strong at?

    Brat, I assume you read about the time I got jumped. One of the guys I was in it with was a bodybuilder. He went pro but never did better than local events really. But man was he strong. He did 500lbs squat, 3 times his senior year. He had the best squat that year. He was also the guy I mentioned was a far better fighter than me. Yeah , he hit hard. He was Isshin Ryu and judo.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brat View Post
    To each his own.
    His own all have their heads proudly hanging on wall in forbidden city like house elves at Sirius black's. You will never break it's resolve or disrupt it's portrait comforting and it bites.

    "There, there Empress. Bawang is here...."
    Last edited by curenado; 03-21-2015 at 08:46 AM.
    "The perfect way to do, is to be" ~ Lao Tzu

  3. #48
    All right, lay off him. He is just telling stories he heard and some street magic he saw. We all have a natural inclination to believe in legends and conspiracy. I don't mind reading it.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    wiry guys dont eat enough.

    shaolin monk soldiers ate one pound of tofu a day and tubs of rice.

    in chinese army promotion means more meat rations
    Not many even think about that. I have no idea if food or weights most important secret but in same box. Labeled "Day 1".
    I think here lots prove that they can overcome food choices and other places people wish to overcome by food choices? But how many dragon fighting societies have no food thing. (Chi fan? They have no chi fan? I don't even know if that's right)
    "The perfect way to do, is to be" ~ Lao Tzu

  5. #50

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Okay lets me ask this.

    Is there anyone here that managed to get that 300 lbs bench? 500lbs squat and the same or higher with the deadlift? Or anyone just have some pet lift that you were ungodly strong at?

    Brat, I assume you read about the time I got jumped. One of the guys I was in it with was a bodybuilder. He went pro but never did better than local events really. But man was he strong. He did 500lbs squat, 3 times his senior year. He had the best squat that year. He was also the guy I mentioned was a far better fighter than me. Yeah , he hit hard. He was Isshin Ryu and judo.
    No I didn't read about that billy. But I would assume that his Isshin Ryu and Judo played the greatest part in his success albiet the strength from bodybuilding could have and probably did help. Back in the 1980's everybody was in the bodybuilding craze (well not everybody but lots of people) and they lifted weights primarily to look tough so people wouldn't mess with them (I fell into this category as well but I was also a HS wrestler so I had some combat ability). That's why you saw lots of guys who were 5'2" - 5'5" walking around all buff. Not many bodybuilders could utilize their strength because in punching it just doesn't work that way. Bench press by itself doesn't equal a hard punch. Now in grappling it's another story.

    When I went to South Korea I had training in HS wrestling, Judo, BJJ, TKD, and some other stuff. I joined a Taekkyon dojang. The teacher had me stand with him inside a 1.5 x 1.5 meter sqaure, take him in a referee tie up and attempt to move him out of the square. I tried to budge him for about 5 minutes until I gave up. I realized at that point that there was much I could learn from him. Now I've told this story before to people - BJJ guys, Kung Fu guys who have trained over here and they've all called BS. After about 6 months of training I could move him to the edge of the square I could never move him out.

    When I went to Bangkok I began training at Rangsit Stadium in Muay Thai. I really didn't care much for Muay Thai but it is held in high regard in the MA community and I did learn lots about closing the distance as well as other things which I benefited from. I eventually was introduced to my xingyi teacher. When I first sparred with him he didn't dance around and do kickboxing like most guys you see. It was strict xingyi technique. I couldn't touch him. Every time I would move to strike he would just step away or dart to the side and strike me leaving me completely undefended.

    There are crappy teachers in Asia to be sure just as there are here. I just happen to luck out and have some really good ones. What I mean to tell you is that there is a mindset to training that is totally foreign to most of us. I got a peek at it and in no way am I claiming to be an expert but what held me back the most in this training was divesting myself of most of what had been taught to me in the west which according to my Takkyon teacher (in a very cordial manner) was ****! Many people especially lots of the grappling guys I trained with had the impression that lots of the stories about the great masters were trumped up and embellished. And in some cases that may be true. But borrowing some mental techniques that are widely used in western training, if you only believe that you can run a certain distance in a certain amount of time you will never reach beyond the limitations you have set for yourself. If you approach training with the mindset that your pumping iron and all is the have all end all then that is all you will achieve. If there is in fact something else out there you will have limited yourself to that. You may never be able to jump over a high jump pole at a certain height. But if you try and try even failing every day who knows how much improvement you might have gained rather than just saying **** it and never trying? Weight training or calasthenics/strength training is important if you want to be the best you can but it is only one piece of the puzzle. There are many more things in play in a strike and I do know what they are. That has come through proper instruction and more importantly practice. Lots of practice.

    The Erle Montaigue student I sparred with a couple years back didn't have the essence of the art he had studied. In my opinion he had been corrupted by a flawed mindset and whether that was imparted to him by Erle or just baggage he brought with him from other things I cannot say. I know that I am also inviting myself to be flamed by this posting but that is not my intention either. I don't want to offend anyone.

    The irony of it all is that I have never used the techniques and training I got in a real fight. The last 3 fights I was ever in (spanning a 25 year period) two of them were won by techniques I picked up off videos. Go figure.

  7. #52
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    " What I mean to tell you is that there is a mindset to training that is totally foreign to most of us. I got a peek at it and in no way am I claiming to be an expert but what held me back the most in this training was divesting myself of most of what had been taught to me in the west which according to my Takkyon teacher (in a very cordial manner) was ****! "



    Myself, one attack by two should have been a youtube video of grace and control. Tough nugs.
    The other is hard to say. Pitch black and murder the motive. What happened I called Xing gong quan. Weedhopper sh*t, went into 5th gear and came to at choice whether to kill him or not. So yes, gong fu. But automatic pilot still difficult to dissect by moment.
    "The perfect way to do, is to be" ~ Lao Tzu

  8. #53
    Brat, I bow to you and all you have been able to do and places you have gone to in your life. I enjoy the stories. Thanks.


    And for the rest of you- Greatest Band that ever was


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kmCgVhADY

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Brat, I bow to you and all you have been able to do and places you have gone to in your life. I enjoy the stories. Thanks.


    And for the rest of you- Greatest Band that ever was


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kmCgVhADY
    No one bows to me boxerbilly I'm just a fellow hobbyist. I do get a little tired of people calling BS on some of this stuff but I used to be just like them. I was clearly more skilled (with just two years of training) than a dude who had trained under Earle Montaigue and written a book and did a video nonetheless. And I consider my skill to be pretty novice. I can tell you right now that in no way am I as good as my teacher. He could whoop my azz in a second even at his age. In turn he claimed that he wasn't as good as his teacher who claimed that he was no where as skilled as Dragon Cho who was adamant that his skill paled in comparison to his teacher. Which leads me to question just how good were those guys? So if I am perfectly honest in stating that I am not as good as my teacher why should anyone question the others? Equally then it seems absurd for some meat head to suggest that those guys were just the product of overactive imaginations and they would be dispatched easily by some modern day cage fighter or some ham at a local MMA gym.

    I actually wrote down stories going back 5 generations as told to me by my teacher. I lost the page where he named his teacher so I don't readily have that info but there was not much info about him other than that he claimed to be less skilled than Dragon Cho. Keep in mind this info was told me by an elderly Thai gentleman who spoke passable English who had the info dictated to him by a Chinese guy who only spoke Mandarin and was talking about events that happened mostly before his birth. Also forgive the Romanizations because I am sure they aren't correct. The info was passed to my teacher's teacher via Dragon Cho. Dragon cho had apparently had a really **** life and never liked to talk about much due to the pain it brought him. Shortly after inheriting a profitable textile business from his adoptive father his wife was crushed by a wagon wheel and died instantly. He was left a widower with two daughters who not long after died of fever. So you can see why he had a chip on his shoulder. He had one weakness though - alcohol. Every night he would get hammered on liquer and then his lips would loosen. My teacher's teacher got all the info during those times and Dragon Cho would wake up not remembering what he had said.

    The first guy recorded in the line of grandmasters was named Gao daiming (as best as I can translate from what was told me). Gao daiming was born to a peasant family who didn't have a pot to **** in or a window to throw it out. They were farmers. Gao daiming had a gift though. He was surprisingly strong and full of vigor. As a child he won all of the competitions at the festivals in his province. A local man who had served as a Royal Guard then in retirement took notice of Gao diaming's ability and offered to accept him as a student. He was taught what was described as "Deer Style" which was a military style of combat including weapons of sword, spear, chain whip, halbred, bow and arrow and many others.

    He eventually became very skilled learning all that his teacher knew. As a teenager he opted to become a bodyguard which was a common profession for martial artists then as bandits were very prolific. Gao made much more money than a farmer at this. There was a local government official - a manchu that had a daughter who was very, very beautiful. Her mother had died and her father was very protective of her and shunned her having much contact with anyone except a few loyal servants. One day the girl was traveling with her coach bearers and a personal guard who rode with her in the coach. Gao daiming had been hired to escort the entourage traveling on foot.

    Four bandits had gotten wind of the expedition and plotted to attack the convoy and kidnap the daughter to be held for ransom. They attacked and Gao drawing his sword slew two of the bandits. A third breached the coach and killed the girl's bodyguard. The fourth wiped out the coach bearers. The third bandit held the girl hostage while the fourth taunted Gao daiming. Gao daiming's sword was a specially designed one that was balanced to be thrown as well as wielded normally. Apparently the girl lost her stomach and puked which grossed out the bandit holding her and it gave Gao daiming the opening he needed to drive the sword home throwing it through his chest. The other bandit high tailed it.

    The daughter's feet had been bound which meant she couldn't walk long distances so Gao had to carry her to the next village where they could dispatch a rider to go for help. The girl tried talking to Gao but he wasn't really comfortable because of his sense of duty talking to a royal. Eventually the girl's feminine wiles got the best of him and they chatted. She was a little bit older than him (7 years) and was not particularly fond of her father's attitude toward her. Her mother had been more of a commoner and let her play outside and get dirty. When she had passed her father wouldn't let her do anything.

    They reached the next village and the father arrived in a day or so while Gao guarded the young lady. But the daughter was in love with Gao daiming and with the help of some loyal household staff she arranged for letters to be written to him. They met under duress several times and the girl begged him to take her and run away because she couldn't stand her father and his injustices any longer. Gao daiming loved her too and they made plans. But the father found out and he was furious that his daughter had fallen for a common ruffian. He plotted to kill Gao daiming. The father was reputed to be pretty handy with a broad sword and he waited until the two lovers were to steal away and set a trap confronting Gao daiming. Gao daiming had no grand aspirations of killing his potential father in law but the latter gave him no choice. Gao daiming's swordsmanship proved to be superior to the father's and the father bled to death in the courtyard of the estate. The guards then attacked Gao daiming but he attacked them with equal brutality causing them to retreat for reinforcements. Gao daiming took the girl and escaped to a friends house who hid the two lovers.

    Gao was well connected with the logistics industry due to his profession as a bodyguard and a friend and business owner arranged for them to stow away on a wagon bound for Shanxi province. Gao had a immediate problem - her feet. Anyone could tell that she was not a commoner and if news got back to the province the locals might put two and to together and they would be back in hot water. So Gao used a concoction of herbs and massage to treat her feet and within time she could walk normally.

    They arrived in Shanxi province where Gao used some letters of recommendation from his friend (under an assumed name) to gain employment for a local estate as a laborer. The owner of the estate immediately took notice of Gao daiming because of his strength and his ability to do the work of three men without complaining. The owner of the estate was also a master of Shanxi quan, a hard style of xingyiquan common locally. He was sure that Gao daiming was a martial artist of some ability but he wanted to test him. Though Gao daiming was regarded as a man of noble character the owner stormed into the laborer's quarters one evening and accused Gao daiming of some treachery. He demanded a fight outside. Of course Gao daiming didn't want this but the owner attacked him. The two fought mercilessly for several minutes until the owner finally halted the engagement.

    He apoligized for his deceitfulness in accusing Gao daiming of the wrong but told him that he wanted to test his skills as a pugilist. He was very impressed by Gao daiming's martial abilities and offered him a promotion to overseer and to become his personal student. Gao accepted and trained for many years in his employer's style. Gao became almost as a son to the owner and when the latter passed he was given an inheritance with the children. He used this inheritance to start a textile business.

    Gao daiming and his wife had three children - two daughters and a younger son who they named shanlan (Gao shanlan). It is not known whether Gao daiming taught his girls any Kung Fu but he taught all of his skills to Shanlan. When Gao Daiming was old his wife had passed and he charged Shanlan that upon his passing that he should return to his home province, find family members and inform them of the whereabouts and story of all that had transpired. In addition he should make restitution for the treachery of having killed the Manchu lord.

    After laying Gao daiming to rest, Shanlan sold the textile company, (giving him a considerable amount of capital), traveled to the home province and looked up the family members. They were overjoyed to receive him and find out what had happened to the long lost brother and uncle. He also discovered that the province was under new governance and the new magistrate cared little for the plight of the dead former lord.

    Shanlan opened a textile business and married a friend of his cousin. The business was very successful but he had a problem. His wife could not have any children. One of his business associates was killed along with his wife and two of their children (maybe in a fire) leaving a lone boy child orphaned (this would be Dragon Cho).






    contd

  10. #55
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    The child was adopted by Shanlan and his wife and was tutored in the Kung Fu style of his adoptive father for 30 years. Shanlan's skill was regarded as legendary. One story was that he had a friend who was falsely accused of a crime by a local corrupt politician. The man was sentenced to hang by the neck. Shanlan knew of his innocence and offered himself up for the penalty of death in place of his friend. The corrupt politician agreed to accept Shanlan as executee instead of the other man thinking that he could get rid of Shanlan and eventually the man in question at a later date.

    Shanlan was noosed and hung. But he wouldn't die. He hung there for a long time but was still breathing and looking around. The onlookers became agitated and shouted that he should be let down as his refusal to die was proof of his innocence and the innocence of his friend. The rope was cut and Shanlan ran to the house of the politician (which had been bolted closed) and scaling the wall and entering through the a second stroy window began to beat the man senseless. Also Shanlan is said to have studied a Hebei style of Xingyiquan and modified Gao daiming's original style making it more soft in practice.

    Eventually Shanlan passed and Dragon Cho inherited the business. After the deaths of his wife and twin daughters he began hitting the booze heavily and couldn't manage his business well. He became indebted to many people. One man who was a friend and business associate felt very sorry of the plight of Dragon Cho. He bought all of the debt and promised to release Cho of the obligation and also provide him with a small pension allowing him to keep his house and lively hood if he would train his son in the famous style of Kung Fu he was known for. That son was of course my teacher's teacher. He trained with Dragon Cho for 6 years which was the time agreed upon by his father and Cho to settle the debt owed.

    It isn't known whether Dragon Cho was trained in the obscure Deer style which was apparently passed to Shanlan but Shanlan studied many different techniques of Kung fu incorporating them into the overall style of Xingyiquan he passed to Dragon Cho. The deer style was lost to history as was lots of other stuff due to the fact that my teacher's teacher nly trained six years with Dragon Cho who had trained 30 years with Shanlan.

    So I got to train 2 years learning the basics of this style of Xingyiquan all because of the alcoholism of a depressed Kung Fu grand master who couldn't pay his bills!
    Last edited by Brat; 03-21-2015 at 02:21 PM.

  11. #56
    Glad to see you removed your phone number Brat. This forum is loaded with wacko's , lol. I saw it earlier on my way out and was not sure who you wanted to call you. Probably a mistake. Careful with the copy and paste buddy .

  12. #57
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    To be honest with you I don't know anything about it and apparently neither did my teacher's teacher. It exists in citation only as having been the original style studied by Gao daiming. Whatever Dragon Cho knew sadly he took with him. According to my teacher sometime around 1917 in autumn two young men found him unresponsive laying on a road near his house. Probably died of heart failure or a stroke. Gao shanlan was revered as the greatest proponent of the styles as he fought more people and was credited with lots more adventures than his father but at the same time he was always busy with his business and martial arts was a secondary endeavor. After the incident with the manchu dude, Gao daiming and his wife laid pretty low the rest of their lives and used assumed names up until their deaths. The xingyiqun taught by Gao daimings employer took precedence as the favored style. The xingyi is the standard 5 elements 12 animals with linking and an shen pao two man forms you can find in other styles. There are two different forms for each of the 5 elements I think reflecting the old Shanxi style and the newer Hebei it was combined with so actually there are 10 elements forms two of each. The animal styles are a bit more acrobatic than I have seen in other styles.
    Last edited by Brat; 03-21-2015 at 04:14 PM.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    Glad to see you removed your phone number Brat. This forum is loaded with wacko's , lol. I saw it earlier on my way out and was not sure who you wanted to call you. Probably a mistake. Careful with the copy and paste buddy .
    dragon cho and floating indian heavy metal guitar players is not crazy at all.

    story sounds like schitzophrenia word salad
    Last edited by bawang; 03-21-2015 at 05:38 PM.

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  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    dragon cho and floating indian heavy metal guitar players is not crazy at all.

    story sounds like schitzophrenia word salad
    No ! He is simply relaying what he saw and stories he was told. Really its no worse than biting your fingernails worried about Mexico invading and offering to sell your students out as bodyguards to walk you to the corner store for a pack of smokes and wondering if you can cash in on that worry. That's good business. That's Compton!

    I'll take the old fairy tales over the modern ones.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by boxerbilly View Post
    No ! He is simply relaying what he saw and stories he was told. Really its no worse than biting your fingernails worried about Mexico invading and offering to sell your students out as bodyguards to walk you to the corner store for a pack of smokes and wondering if you can cash in on that worry. That's good business. That's Compton!

    I'll take the old fairy tales over the modern ones.
    It's ok boxerbilly he's way more considerate than the BJJ trolls that used to lurk here. I honestly could give a rats arse what he thinks. Just imagine yourself on the roof of a 6 story building in northern Bangkok sipping coconut juice and having a real Kung Fu master relate the previous story to you. Then ask yourself "What cool thing have I done lately?" I only posted the story because you said you enjoyed reading them and I thought I'd give you the long version. I can't vouch for anything other than that my teacher was one bad MFer but it's not overly different from many stories from styles I've read about in magazines so take it for what it's worth.

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