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Thread: explain the butt tuck to me

  1. #1
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    explain the butt tuck to me

    What exactly is the purpose of tucking the butt in during horse stance? Do all styles use it?

    After years of squatting, sticking the butt out is a much stronger position to me.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    What exactly is the purpose of tucking the butt in during horse stance? Do all styles use it?

    After years of squatting, sticking the butt out is a much stronger position to me.
    ur supposed to keep a neutral spine. command to tuck in the butt is a que to correct bad posture, just like the arch command in squatting


    horse stance training is a preparatory exercise for squatting in kung fu, the back stays the same in both
    Last edited by bawang; 04-07-2015 at 10:08 AM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
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  3. #3
    I am not qualified to answer anything of that nature but here is a article from someone that may be?

    http://www.chiarts.com/the-myth-of-t...inmenu-16.html

    Makes me consider others posts of Allen and his students being ram rod straight, stiff, etc. Perhaps there was reason they did this? Just a consideration.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    ur supposed to keep a neutral spine. command to tuck in the butt is a que to correct bad posture, just like the arch command in squatting


    horse stance training is a preparatory exercise for squatting in kung fu, the back stays the same in both
    I agree, I've met people with pretty decent posture start the IMA's with an unqualified teacher, and then screw up their posture big time by tucking their butt and overly collapsing their chest. In fact when I have push hands with people who do that BS, I find it easier to take their center.

  5. #5
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    It is a part of traditional iron body training. Most practitioners that I see today seem too lazy to learn it. It is something that should be taught from the first day of training.
    Richard A. Tolson
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    ur supposed to keep a neutral spine. command to tuck in the butt is a que to correct bad posture, just like the arch command in squatting


    horse stance training is a preparatory exercise for squatting in kung fu, the back stays the same in both
    Depends on the squatting style. Low bar you have to lean upper body forward to keep weight over the midfoot. And, you stick butt back to engage the glutes and use the stretch reflex of your hamstrings to get out of the hole.

    I'm just curious why some schools teach a horse stance with the butt out and some teach it with it in. Butt out will force you to be leaned over more, but allow you to really use the hamstrings.

    What are the advantages to gaining an extra couple inches in a more erect spinal posture?
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post

    I'm just curious why some schools teach a horse stance with the butt out and some teach it with it in. Butt out will force you to be leaned over more, but allow you to really use the hamstrings.
    butt out is the traditional position and is to prepare for weight lifting, butt in is common for standing meditation. butt in helps beginners find the abdominal pressure sensation, pushing their belly down instead of out
    Last edited by bawang; 04-10-2015 at 10:55 AM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    What exactly is the purpose of tucking the butt in during horse stance?
    [...]
    After years of squatting, sticking the butt out is a much stronger position to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    command to tuck in the butt is a que to correct bad posture, just like the arch command in squatting
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    And, you stick butt back to engage the glutes and use the stretch reflex of your hamstrings to get out of the hole.
    [...]
    Butt out will force you to be leaned over more, but allow you to really use the hamstrings.
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    butt out is the traditional position and is to prepare for weight lifting
    It's all about propioception of proper body mechanics and dynamics to allow effective delivery of waist, hip, and core power when fighting.

    Butt out is stronger for lifting. For fighting you want functional strength and body mechanics to facilitate mobility, agility and hitting hard.

    Do boxers stick their butts out?

  9. #9
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    To say that to be generally stronger isn't functional is funny.

    Thanks bawang, that makes sense.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesC View Post
    To say that to be generally stronger isn't functional is funny.
    Nothing against being generally stronger. Just that squats direct force upwards. Hitting people benefits from force going forward and down.

    Strong legs let you apply more sinking force because you can drop faster and still recover. Butt in lets you use more core rotation to power your strikes.

    Combine fast drop and explosive core rotation into the punches, and you have functional power for damaging the other guy.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    Nothing against being generally stronger. Just that squats direct force upwards. Hitting people benefits from force going forward and down.
    squatting is an essential fundamental skill in kung fu.
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    It's all about propioception of proper body mechanics and dynamics to allow effective delivery of waist, hip, and core power when fighting.

    Butt out is stronger for lifting. For fighting you want functional strength and body mechanics to facilitate mobility, agility and hitting hard.

    Do boxers stick their butts out?
    we werent talking about fighting. we talking about horse stance, for training

    for fighintg you switch body position as needed. if ur hunched wit tucked butt a hard clinch can fold u and ur hips are forward so easier to take down
    Last edited by bawang; 04-11-2015 at 10:58 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    we werent talking about fighting. we talking about horse stance, for training for fighintg you switch body position as needed. if ur hunched wit tucked butt a hard clinch can fold u and ur hips are forward so easier to take down
    You train kung fu horse stance not for fighting???

    Horse stance is transitional step for delivering power when you hit people. We tell beginners don't lean over with butt sticking out. They do this because their legs are weak and they don't want to bend their legs properly.

    Part of the hitting power comes from core rotation. Leaned over and butt out creates higher polar moment of inertia, and makes the core rotation too slow.

    Are you talking about static horse stance training? I thought you don't like southern Chinese. Why you follow southern kung fu method?

    If you are clinched you change.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by -N- View Post
    You train kung fu horse stance not for fighting???

    Horse stance is transitional step for delivering power when you hit people.
    did u come out of time machine lol
    Last edited by bawang; 04-12-2015 at 09:22 AM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    did u come out of time machine lol
    I used to use the horse stance all the time when I sparred. TKD/karate. Of course you may prefer to call it a side stance or variation of same.

    Everyone trains upper body stuff out of horse in the traditional MA's. Especially at first but even seniors worked it. We were also big on using sanchin dachi to practice upper body techniques. I prefer that to horse when doing so. It screws you in place better. I suspect you southern artists have a similar stance. I suppose one could fight out of it but I myself would not be able to. I'll call it lack of skill in being able to do so.

  15. #15
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    I know what you mean bawang. Thanks.
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache Proverb

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