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Thread: Using Soft to Overcome Hard

  1. #1
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    Using Soft to Overcome Hard

    In this video I demonstrate how soft can over come hard, and Wing Chun structure is not the ultimate. Using yuen ging or soft power can be more devastating then hard or ngang ging.
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    In this video I demonstrate how soft can over come hard, and Wing Chun structure is not the ultimate. Using yuen ging or soft power can be more devastating then hard or ngang ging.
    Have you conditioned your forearms over the years?

    Is that why it was so painful for the guy trying to hit you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn Mantis View Post
    Have you conditioned your forearms over the years?

    Is that why it was so painful for the guy trying to hit you?
    Hi Reborn Mantis, No I don't do any conditioning in my bridges. As you can see in my video it's not necessary. Wing Chun uses a softer method,yet the bridge is stronger then the one who conditions their bridges..
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

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    Remember when Frank Shamrock just held his arm up against Cung Le's round kick. Didn't work out so well.

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    At 1.44, the left arm is used to block a right haymaker. This just remind me a tournament sparring in Hong Kong back in the 70th. A WC guy used his left Tan Shou to block a CLF guy's haymaker. The haymaker not only knock through the WC guy's left Tan Shou, it also hit on the WC guy's head and knocked him down. After that tournament, the WC guy went back to Ip Man (my friend was Ip Man's student and was in the class at the moment). Ip Man then told him to use right Tan Shou plus a body rotation to the left to deal with the right haymaker. IMO, the haymaker with body spinning can be very powerful and cannot be block with a single arm. This has nothing to do with style but simple physics.

    IMO, the haymaker is just like the roundhouse kick. It can be blocked if you move in and "squeeze the space". Trying to use your Peng Jin to block a haymaker (or roundhouse kick) may not be enough through my personal experience.

    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-10-2015 at 11:10 AM.
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    Excellent haymaker demo !

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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmStriker View Post
    Excellent haymaker demo !
    IMO, the haymaker is one of the best defense move used against "all straight line punches". When your opponent charges in like a mad man and throws "chain punches" at your face, a body rotation haymaker can

    - move yourself out of your opponent's striking path (by your stealing step),
    - interrupt all his punches (by your 45 degree downward move), and
    - knock him down right at that moment.

    Whenever that you may feel your opponent's attack makes you to feel uncomfortable, a body rotation haymaker can always solve your problem. In order to make your haymaker work, you do need to tough your arm though.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-10-2015 at 09:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Ip Man then told him to use right Tan Shou plus a body rotation to the left to deal with the right haymaker.
    Highly doubt that... That's even dumber.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Highly doubt that... That's even dumber.
    Agree!

    That would not be a tan sou

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Remember when Frank Shamrock just held his arm up against Cung Le's round kick. Didn't work out so well.
    Their is a limit to everything,you just have to know your limitation.
    http://www.facebook.com/sifumcilwrath
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

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    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    Their is a limit to everything,you just have to know your limitation.
    Very true! I am assuming that you have tested the limits of this idea against skilled kickers of more equal size really trying to drive thru you. And also against a puncher your size really trying to hit you. I bring this up as, while I understand this is a demo, your partner is almost half your size. While he is clearly giving some effort by his reaction to the 'block', it is also clear he is apprehensive of really trying to hit you and pulling short on his attacks (maybe after the sting of the first one is felt? lol).

    Either way, this idea would be much better proven against a skilled TKD or MT kicker of a few years. I know several MT guys with only a few years exp. that can generate a LOT of force with their kicks. Some make impact so powerful against a pad it feels and sounds similar to a baseball bat being swung. With that in mind, I would find it harder to believe they can be defended against at the full apex of the kick with this without stepping in or cutting the kick off first. Not saying you can't do it, but I'm sure you can agree it would be a lot more useful of a demo if doing it against someone your size with more or equal experience!

    Wing Chun being an art of simplicity, I am assuming you have or can teach this to your student. Since you have a lot of clips, maybe you could make the next one showing your student doing the same thing against you? I think this would type of demo would hold a lot of weight proving the theory, as well as show this skill isn't just based on years of experience but can be also be taught and used by typical students.

    Thanks.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    Very true! I am assuming that you have tested the limits of this idea against skilled kickers of more equal size really trying to drive thru you. And also against a puncher your size really trying to hit you. I bring this up as, while I understand this is a demo, your partner is almost half your size. While he is clearly giving some effort by his reaction to the 'block', it is also clear he is apprehensive of really trying to hit you and pulling short on his attacks (maybe after the sting of the first one is felt? lol).

    Either way, this idea would be much better proven against a skilled TKD or MT kicker of a few years. I know several MT guys with only a few years exp. that can generate a LOT of force with their kicks. Some make impact so powerful against a pad it feels and sounds similar to a baseball bat being swung. With that in mind, I would find it harder to believe they can be defended against at the full apex of the kick with this without stepping in or cutting the kick off first. Not saying you can't do it, but I'm sure you can agree it would be a lot more useful of a demo if doing it against someone your size with more or equal experience!

    Wing Chun being an art of simplicity, I am assuming you have or can teach this to your student. Since you have a lot of clips, maybe you could make the next one showing your student doing the same thing against you? I think this would type of demo would hold a lot of weight proving the theory, as well as show this skill isn't just based on years of experience but can be also be taught and used by typical students.

    Thanks.
    I have tested it against a host of people some martial artist and some not. It very effective at least for me anyway against a good kicker and someone who is bigger and stronger then me,but I would have to use two hands not one agaist a strong kick but it will still work. Agaist a professional I have no idea or an elite fighter I have no idea if it would hold up. But these kinds of fightersI don;t have access to nor would I likely come across if I needed to defend myself against them.
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

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    Quote Originally Posted by stonecrusher69 View Post
    I have tested it against a host of people some martial artist and some not. It very effective at least for me anyway against a good kicker and someone who is bigger and stronger then me,but I would have to use two hands not one agaist a strong kick but it will still work. Agaist a professional I have no idea or an elite fighter I have no idea if it would hold up. But these kinds of fightersI don;t have access to nor would I likely come across if I needed to defend myself against them.
    I think what JP is asking for is to see, for example, that student of yours in the video work the technique against your full force strikes, if he has learned it, to show that it can be learned and done by anyone. Or, for you to show it using someone like one of those you describe here; a good kicker and someone who is bigger and stronger than you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    I think what JP is asking for is to see, for example, that student of yours in the video work the technique against your full force strikes, if he has learned it, to show that it can be learned and done by anyone. Or, for you to show it using someone like one of those you describe here; a good kicker and someone who is bigger and stronger than you.
    Exactly. Thanks!
    In all of his clips, I can't remember one time where the much-smaller, less-skilled person/student is demonstrating the ability to use anything being demoed in the clips. And to be honest, I'm having a hard time seeing how this single handed 'block' will work for anyone against anyone other than someone not really skilled at kicking or against a fully committed 'real' kick from a 'real' kicker. Again, not saying it can't be done but seeing is believing
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 05-15-2015 at 11:01 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    student of yours in the video work the technique against your full force strikes, if he has learned it, to show that it can be learned and done by anyone.
    Besides technique, there is ability. If your opponent's ability is not on your level, even if his technique is perfect, his technique still won't work on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPinAZ View Post
    I'm having a hard time seeing how this single handed 'block' will work for anyone against anyone other than someone not really skilled ...
    Since haymaker is an important defense in the system that I taught in UT Austin informal class, In the beginning of each semester, I would ask each student to use their left arm to block my right haymaker. For 50 students of my class, not a single student could use single "left" arm to block my 45 degree downward body rotation "right" haymaker. My haymaker could not only knock through their left blocking arm, it also hit on the side of their head which knocked their body to be off balance. I then told them that a 45 degree downward haymaker can be used to deal with any surprised straight line attack. It can be a lifesaver. This way, they would have confidence to spend their training time to develop it.

    Since I had tested this over 1,000 new students. some students are much bigger than me. I strongly believe that single "left" arm block to a "right" haymaker is "impossible".
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-15-2015 at 07:38 PM.
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