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Thread: Wing Chun Sparring

  1. #16
    I think the reason for so much Inside style hating is that people don’t believe in their system, and follow popular trends and fads. for example judo people spar in thick jackets and start from a clinch and only work throws 90% of the time. BJJ guys start sparing on their knees. You can say, well no one will have on a thick jacket most of the time, and people don’t start a fight from a clinch. Or how many people start a real fight on their knees, or fighting from a guard, really I good idea for a real fight? But these are accepted cause they are the "in thing". if wing chun is an in close fighting style makes sense they practice their chi sao free style most of the time, and from time to time test it out in other ways, like the author said in the ring
    Last edited by wiz cool c; 05-19-2015 at 11:55 PM.

  2. #17
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    There are valid reasons why judo and BJJ players wear thick jackets. Most people you might have to defend against will be wearing clothes, so arguably gi is better for self defence training than fighting no gi. But wearing regular street clothes is impractical, if you used T shirts for cloth grips you'd be replacing them every session.

    You start from your knees in crowded BJJ schools to avoid the collisions and injuries that arise from having too many people falling on each other. Many schools don't always start from the knees but might have you starting in someone's guard, or one person starting seated and the other standing, which is reasonably realistic from a self defense point of view. Most good schools add specialised takedown classes and spend time on self defense applications.

    "Realistic" depends on your goals for training. If as the Centre for Disease Control said once, you are many thousands of times more likely to die of lifestyle related heart disease than from a violent assault, then perhaps concentrating solely on self defence may not be the most appropriate way to train. People do martial arts for all sorts of reasons, most of which are valid.

    Inside style hating does appear in BJJ and other grappling styles, but is MUCH rarer than in TMAs. The only discord I've come across has usually been related to money or business issues than to who has the best BJJ - the latter can be worked out easily in a few minutes on the mat without anyone having to get badly hurt. And everyone meets up regularly at comps, where everyone's BJJ gets tested. Just about everyone has friends on other teams and regularly go to other schools to train. My social life is WAY richer because of Jiu Jitsu. Wing Chun, not so much, except for people at the single school I train at.

    Wing Chun is probably among the worst. Mainly because Wing Chun people spar with words and seldom interact with each other, let alone other stylists.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

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  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by thedreamer7 View Post
    Not asking you to teach me. I am asking you to back up what you know about sparring, as an ex amateur boxer I think I know what 'boxing sparring is". Thanks for showing me your ability to use google.
    Sparring is about timing and movement, nothing else. You will also note the clip you provided me were individuals of the same weight category, etc. The clip I provided was of people with over 50lbs weight difference, hardly appropriate for what you're suggesting, again it is about use timing and movement. Also please look at the difference in gloves between the clips.
    If you want full contact you need smoker events, step in the ring, etc. Like below:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pidTtZqueXY
    What you showed in your opening clip was people just wasting their time with inefficient nonsense.

    They looked God awful and totally incapable of defending themselves in a self-defence situation.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedreamer7 View Post
    Yes.
    You originally said "as an ex amateur boxer I think I know what 'boxing sparring is" - it is clear by the clip you have a lot more 'thinking' to do. And, it may cause one to call BS on your claimed experience as an amateur boxer - if this is really all you think sparring entails. Add to that the fact the you answered 'yes' when asked if what you demoed in the clip is your idea of the limits of what sparring is further proves the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by thedreamer7 View Post
    Again I would prefer if you and your buddy provided clips rather than just text, otherwise to me you sound just like armchair warriors. The other clip I posted to you was to show my guys actually go and fight rather than talk. You can talk all you like on a forum, but you only know what works by stepping in the ring, my training is geared towards that. Many of the guys I train with are active MMA fighters and have a very different opinion to you on sparring.
    Regarding ground game, I enter BJJ competitions, so again I leave that to the matt to figure out what works. I train at Marchelo Garcia BJJ school.
    Anyway, I took the time to answer your questions and give a very detailed response and this is what I get in return?? Just cries for video and your 'resume' (which I didn't ask for). I didn't ask about the opinions of who you train with, or about your ground game nor where you train. I thought the discussion was on sparring - do you actually have an opinion of your own to share, or should I just go talk to the people you train with who actually might know what they are doing? (sarcasm implied)

    BTW, if you don't like 'talk on a forum', maybe this isn't the place for you. This is a discussion forum, not youtube. While sharing videos here is perfectly fine and encouraged, it is not necessary to carry on a normal conversation. It's obvious you are not here to share views/opinions and just to 'wow' us with your incredible show of skills. If you can't take counter views or constructive criticism, maybe you should either keep your sparring vids to yourself next time - or grow some fkg thicker skin
    Last edited by JPinAZ; 05-20-2015 at 11:58 AM.
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  5. #20
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    Typical WC sparring thread.
    Some one posts a half assed video of crappy "sparring" then gets all prissy because people point out it sucks.
    WTF?
    Why post a video at all if you are not smart enough to take the critique it so obviously deserves?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by thedreamer7 View Post
    Yes. Again I would prefer if you and your buddy provided clips rather than just text, otherwise to me you sound just like armchair warriors. The other clip I posted to you was to show my guys actually go and fight rather than talk. You can talk all you like on a forum, but you only know what works by stepping in the ring, my training is geared towards that. Many of the guys I train with are active MMA fighters and have a very different opinion to you on sparring.
    Regarding ground game, I enter BJJ competitions, so again I leave that to the matt to figure out what works. I train at Marchelo Garcia BJJ school.
    I think if you look through the sticky on Wing Chun full contact fights you can see plenty of examples of my training and sparring partners. If the clip you posted was intended to show your guys "actually go and fight rather than talk" then it failed. There didn't seem like a whole lot of "actually go and fight" there at all. Which is why I posted a contrasting MMA sparring clip from a gym that was comparable to the mma gym I train at. Pariah MMA, Prime BJJ. Here's a clip of one of my main training partners in ground - see around 4:30 and 7:45 mark in this clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aS6RHS_ZgE We don't video private training sessions.

    Anyway I don't want to argue semantics. Regarding stepping in the ring, are you saying you have a fight record? Where?

  7. #22
    In the first video. I can not comment on the chi sao. But as far as that sparring goes, it sucked ! I wish people would come at me like that. I may not know WC but I will suggest all you WC guys use those videos I posted as a model to use your art for fighting. I would have serious trouble against some of those guys in those videos. My boxing abilities would fall short . Of course I would not just box. But even still some of those guys would give me troubles. That was good WC in my ignorant of WC opinion

    Now, as far as self defense stuff goes in WC I have no idea.

  8. #23
    The point is people don’t only throw in a fight and wear jackets perfect for beginning thrown and people don’t start fighting from their knees, but people will accept them cause they are the “in thing right now” How are they different then from starting hands touching. They are all style specific sparring.I have trained in bjj and judo and competed in them as well.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    The point is people don’t only throw in a fight and wear jackets perfect for beginning thrown and people don’t start fighting from their knees, but people will accept them cause they are the “in thing right now”. How are they different then from starting hands touching. They are all style specific sparring.
    Judo has been practiced in gis for over 100 years, and BJJ in gis and without for decades. If that's the "in thing right now", its been like that for a LONG time.

    Unless you're training MMA every session, and that is style specific too, then you're sparring "style specific".

    I think actually most schools start chi sao with hands touching, but not sparring. These days many schools and cross train and introduce elements from other arts, do groundfighting, modern weapons, clinch work, etc.

    You were saying that gi's etc. and starting with hands touching, style specific sparring were the cause of "inside style hating". I don't see how the premises can reach that conclusion and explained why.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiz cool c View Post
    I have trained in bjj and judo and competed in them as well.
    Good for you. You will find many other people on this forum have done and continue to do the same.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
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  10. #25
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    The Threads originator deleted this thread and I restored it.
    One of the things that we as martial artist need to live up to is a code or responsibility and that means dealing with a "can of worms" that we open ( as is the case of this thread).
    In the so-called "information age" people like having access to so much information and so much is out there ( good and bad) BUT some feel that if they don't like how things go ( ie: they don't go their way) they can simply delete.
    That may be acceptable to some type of people but MA follow a code, be it wude or bushido and a huge part of those codes is to mean what you say, say what you mean and walk the walk as you talk the talk.
    Deletion does NOT follow into this.

    Thread will be closed however since, well, it seems the appropriate thing to do.

    This has been a message from your friendly neighborhood moderation staff.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

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