Rethinking the Crescent Kick

[boxerbilly]

He means in orthydox Gong Fu. TKD gets their crescent kicks from Japanese Karate. Crescent kicks do show up sparingly in the older Okinawan kata, presumably for the same reasons they are in Chinese forms.

Sorry, I don't think like that.

I have used crescent kicks successfully. For many beginners, it is the only kicks they can hope of making head height. Inner and outer. If you keep your leg sort of bent and extend it around impact you can increase the pop. Some say it is bad for the knees. Never bothered me. They also can transition into axe kicks and I have done the same with spinning variations.

By the way, I thought Chinese styles called these whirlwind kicks?

But anyplace outside of a TKD/karate/maybe kung fu setting I don't see them being a viable kick. I prefer inner edge shovel kicks to the shin, low sides and toe kicks or whole flat of boot. Belly button and below.

[YouKnowWho]

You should use your

- leg to sweep your opponent's leg than to hit his head.
- fist to punch his head than to hit his foot.

You should use your leg to do your leg job and use your hand to do your hand job. It makes no sense to reverse that order. The reason is simple. You leg is "closer" to your opponent's leg and your hand is "closer" to his head.

This is why I have never liked the wrestling "single leg" and "double legs". The Shuai Chiao "front cut" is much more logical solution.

You use your

- leg to control your opponent's leg, and
- arm to control his head.

[Kellen Bassette]

By the way, I thought Chinese styles called these whirlwind kicks?

The whirlwind kick/tornado kick is a type of crescent kick, just with more complex footwork. (You also have this in TKD.)

Crescent kicks are definitely in traditional Chinese forms, but the Kung Fu forms do strange things sometimes. For instance in northern forms, they do a front straight leg swing, (like a cheerleaders kick,) which would be very impractical in fighting. I have seen people interpret this as a type of sweep, a knee strike or a heel push kick. All of that seems absurd, since all those techniques are already represented, more realistically in the forms. I think it just is what it looks like. A leg stretch. Stretch kicks are important to northern systems so it's not really surprising they would put the exercise in a form.

I agree with Bawang that outside and inside crescents in the forms are meant to be stretches. I think people may have later learned to make them work in sparring. I'm not so sure of his statement about the tornado kick being a roundhouse. He probably read something somewhere that made him arrive at that conclusion, if he did, I wish he would share...

[Kellen Bassette]

This is why I have never liked the wrestling "single leg" and "double legs". The Shuai Chiao "front cut" is much more logical solution.

Do you feel the same way about shuai jiao/Chinese single leg and the ankle pick?

[boxerbilly]

The whirlwind kick/tornado kick is a type of crescent kick, just with more complex footwork. (You also have this in TKD.)

Crescent kicks are definitely in traditional Chinese forms, but the Kung Fu forms do strange things sometimes. For instance in northern forms, they do a front straight leg swing, (like a cheerleaders kick,) which would be very impractical in fighting. I have seen people interpret this as a type of sweep, a knee strike or a heel push kick. All of that seems absurd, since all those techniques are already represented, more realistically in the forms. I think it just is what it looks like. A leg stretch. Stretch kicks are important to northern systems so it's not really surprising they would put the exercise in a form.

I agree with Bawang that outside and inside crescents in the forms are meant to be stretches. I think people may have later learned to make them work in sparring. I'm not so sure of his statement about the tornado kick being a roundhouse. He probably read something somewhere that made him arrive at that conclusion, if he did, I wish he would share...

Thank you Kellen.

Thank you Bawang.

[YouKnowWho]

Do you feel the same way about shuai jiao/Chinese single leg and the ankle pick?

For the Chinese single leg, you only use one hand to reach to your opponent's leg while use the other hand to reach to his shoulder (or neck). You don't have to drop as low and since your upper arm can deal with your opponent's arms, this will make you much safer comparing to use both hands to reach to your opponent's leg/legs and expose your head for your opponent's both hands. IMO, the wrestling single leg and double legs may not consider the striking environment in the first place.

How to use your arm to jam your opponent's arms and disable his arms function is a "plus" for Chinese single leg such as:

1. 扣 (kou) - knee seizing
2. 掏 (Tao) - inner knee seizing
3. 错 (Cuo) - crisis-cross
4. ...

[bawang]

I agree with Bawang that outside and inside crescents in the forms are meant to be stretches. I think people may have later learned to make them work in sparring. I'm not so sure of his statement about the tornado kick being a roundhouse. He probably read something somewhere that made him arrive at that conclusion, if he did, I wish he would share...

common sense

but if ur degree of kung fu related brain dmg is very severe, the fist poems in multiple northern styles state that

in leg swing (lotus kick) the opponent is behind you. or you fake a right hook and pretend to overreach, with your back facing the opponent. alternative name is dragon swings tail, which makes the use very clear

in leg chopper (tornado kick) you chop your opponent like a sword chopping a horses leg. when he raises his knee to block, you will grab the knee for single leg called pulling tiger tail. if ur very strong u can unbalance him simply by landing before he does and right hook his face. this is called boy worships buddha.

both kicks are trained by iron broom skill which conditions the shin and back of the leg.

[RenDaHai]

The corresponding shou fa of the cresent kick is vital, but in application;

INSIDE
Kick at mid level, kidneys, kick impacts during UPWARDS phase, NOT accross, kick with ball of foot, turn foot inside.

Use the ball of your foot to do an uppercut into the opponents kidneys or hips, do it close, from outside aiming upwards (hence cresent shape) hand movement is vital, do not change shape of upper body, leg straight.

Thats the inside cresent kick. If you kick ACCROSS you will destroy your own knee, hit upwards with ball of foot. Works great with shoes on. Try it on a bag now, can make heavy bag jump. do NOT hit accross will hurt knee.

Standard hand, use right hand grab his left hand on outside, pull hand down and accross him, kick with right leg into his ribs/hips/kidneys where you can, left hand slaps his face, more to distract him from foot.

Body square with respect to opponent

OUTSIDE
kick DOWN on top of something a bit like an axe but using outside blade, body is side on with respect to opponent.

[Kellen Bassette]

common sense

but if ur degree of kung fu related brain dmg is very severe, the fist poems in multiple northern styles state that

in leg swing (lotus kick) the opponent is behind you. or you fake a right hook and pretend to overreach, with your back facing the opponent. alternative name is dragon swings tail, which makes the use very clear

in leg chopper (tornado kick) you chop your opponent like a sword chopping a horses leg. when he raises his knee to block, you will grab the knee for single leg called pulling tiger tail. if ur very strong u can unbalance him simply by landing before he does and right hook his face. this is called boy worships buddha.

both kicks are trained by iron broom skill which conditions the shin and back of the leg.

Brain damage is minimal. Sword chopping does sound like a round kick, iron leg does train the shins. Makes sense...
Just makes you expect to see more people conditioning a round kick....

[Kellen Bassette]

The corresponding shou fa of the cresent kick is vital, but in application;

INSIDE
Kick at mid level, kidneys, kick impacts during UPWARDS phase, NOT accross, kick with ball of foot, turn foot inside.

Use the ball of your foot to do an uppercut into the opponents kidneys or hips, do it close, from outside aiming upwards (hence cresent shape) hand movement is vital, do not change shape of upper body, leg straight.

Thats the inside cresent kick. If you kick ACCROSS you will destroy your own knee, hit upwards with ball of foot. Works great with shoes on. Try it on a bag now, can make heavy bag jump. do NOT hit accross will hurt knee.

Standard hand, use right hand grab his left hand on outside, pull hand down and accross him, kick with right leg into his ribs/hips/kidneys where you can, left hand slaps his face, more to distract him from foot.

Body square with respect to opponent

OUTSIDE
kick DOWN on top of something a bit like an axe but using outside blade, body is side on with respect to opponent.

This is the most satisfying explanation of applying an inside crescent kick I've ever heard....except for forgoing it for a round kick...
Hitting upwards is far better than hitting across, I feel like I should have known that...

[bawang]

its been 3 yrs lol how could u possibly not know this

in 3 yrs u can get a phd degree lol

[RenDaHai]

This is the most satisfying explanation of applying an inside crescent kick I've ever heard....except for forgoing it for a round kick...
Hitting upwards is far better than hitting across, I feel like I should have known that...

Upwards force cannot be absorbed with movement, you take the brunt of the impact, the force has nowhere to dissipate so it hurts.

It is different from roundkick in the body mechanic. For a roundkick one must tilt the body, it is longer range and generally easier to perceive. The cresent can come from a seemingly static upper body and can be done from closer range while the hands are still working and distracting. Traditional forms also contain round kicks (a lot of different types of roundhouse). Round kicks are harder (literally) to block than cresents. Cresent is faster.

In traditional styles it is common for the opponent to be completely side on to you (inherited from weapons fighting) in such a position the cresent can also be used to attack the bladder or solar plexus or on the other side, spine. People don't use the complete side on strategy as much today.

[Kellen Bassette]

its been 3 yrs lol how could u possibly not know this

in 3 yrs u can get a phd degree lol

I don't know man...maybe the brain damage is worse than I thought. I've been punched in the head a lot during the past 3 years....

[SoCo KungFu]

The corresponding shou fa of the cresent kick is vital, but in application;

INSIDE
Kick at mid level, kidneys, kick impacts during UPWARDS phase, NOT accross, kick with ball of foot, turn foot inside.

Use the ball of your foot to do an uppercut into the opponents kidneys or hips, do it close, from outside aiming upwards (hence cresent shape) hand movement is vital, do not change shape of upper body, leg straight.

Thats the inside cresent kick. If you kick ACCROSS you will destroy your own knee, hit upwards with ball of foot. Works great with shoes on. Try it on a bag now, can make heavy bag jump. do NOT hit accross will hurt knee.

Standard hand, use right hand grab his left hand on outside, pull hand down and accross him, kick with right leg into his ribs/hips/kidneys where you can, left hand slaps his face, more to distract him from foot.

Body square with respect to opponent

OUTSIDE
kick DOWN on top of something a bit like an axe but using outside blade, body is side on with respect to opponent.

This is how I've seen inside crescent from standing position in forms I have learned. Although, there's only 1 time any do standing inside crescent at anything above knee height. In the set (straight form) it is an attack on the kidney. Otherwise, there often a jumping inside crescent that chains into either tiger steals the heart or hook punch (huen choi?). In that case, the kick strikes on the way down with the heel first, though I agree with bawang and prefer to use a round kick in application, personal preference.

Outside crescent is more common, we call it eye cutting kick. The name makes its application obvious, not meant to be a hard kick, just a whip across the brow with the point of the foot. Its used exclusively after setting up with the hands to close their gate.

[SoCo KungFu]

For instance in northern forms, they do a front straight leg swing, (like a cheerleaders kick,) which would be very impractical in fighting.

Can you post an image of this? I'm not sure what you mean. My kungfu exposure is almost exclusively northern (mantis though, so very little in kicks above waist) and I've not seen this type of action. I have seen it in southern kung fu, specifically hung kuen's Lau Gar form.