Thoughts on this chi sau?

[slick69]

Both of then where IMO cheating by not staying bridged. Just taking cheap shots.

What a dumb comment, cheating?

[slick69]

I kinda respect both for putting this out there. I think where you train with someone from diff organization it is a bit awkward. Kwok is uncomfortable and other guy is not really attacking. However I learn much from clip.

[guy b.]

Do you think "To pull your opponent into your punch/kick" is not WC principle? Without drill training, a skill cannot be properly developed. Is there another separate drill that WC guys may use to train this skill?

In the following clip, he pulls his opponent's left arm to jam his opponent's right arm, so when he punches with his right hand, his opponent has no arm to block it. It looks like 100% WC principle to me

Pulling and grabbing is not a wing chun principle. Clearing the way for hitting is a wing chun principle. Bong, lap can be applied in this way (to clear); they are not grappling though. The intention is to hit. Not to jam, not to tie up. To hit.

The lap sau drill of itself develpos a lot more than the idea of clearing the way. Most obviously it is a punching power development drill. It develops the structure and the punch.

Wing chun drills are not drills of applications.

[YouKnowWho]

Pulling and grabbing is not a wing chun principle. ... Wing chun drills are not drills of applications.

That's what I'm afraid someone may say. If it's not WC principle in our previous generation, why can't we make it WC principle in our generation and also in the future generation? A + B > A, by adding B, A will stay unchange.

Also, all drills can be used to train application if you decide to take that route. You are the master, your style is only your slave. It's your choice that matter the most.

[wckf92]

That's what I'm afraid someone may say. If it's not WC principle in our previous generation, why can't we make it WC principle in our generation and also in the future generation? A + B > A, by adding B, A will stay unchange.

Also, all drills can be used to train application if you decide to take that route. You are the master, your style is only your slave. It's your choice that matter the most.

pulling and grabbing (or grabbing and pulling) is acceptable WC. Obviously guyb has a different opinion. No big deal. Grabbing and pulling can achieve "clearing the way" (as guyb puts it) while at the same time amplifying power generation. Again, it depends on how one's training methodologies are conducted.

[YouKnowWho]

"clearing the way" ...

This is a very important CMA principle. When your opponent puts both arms in his center, if you punch him, his arms will be in the way. You can

1. wait for, or
2. force,

your opponent to move his arms out of the way, so you can meet your fist on his face. Since you will never know when he will move his arms away by himself, it's better to "help" him to do so.

Of course you can push your opponent's arm away. But what if you will need to pull? You may use Fu Shou type of pulling. But since when you use Fu Shou, your opponent can just rotate his arm and get out of your contact, the wrist grabbing is still more security way to pull.

[LFJ]

We are talking about 3 different levels here:

1. Don't know how to do wrist grabbing.
2. Know how to do wrist grabbing but don't know how to take advantage on it.
3. Know how to do wrist grabbing and also know how to take advantage on it.

He may only show the 2nd level in that clip, but the "wrist grabbing" is a general principle. It should not be restricted by what he can do in that clip.

You honestly think that clip shows a legit form of wrist grabbing, and not just trying to hold on to keep from getting hit? I do not agree!

A + B > A, by adding B, A will stay unchange.

Not really. If instead of clearing the way by hitting directly you change to grabbing and trying to do something else, you're no longer using A tactics or strategy.

It's logical in theory maybe, A + B > A and they don't create a new letter, just AB, but then A + B + C would be > AB too, and so on ad infinitum (or 26)... But in the brief chaos of a fight, less is more! Rather than a grab bag of strategies and tactics, one direct and decisive strategy that you have trained well will better serve you.

[guy b.]

That's what I'm afraid someone may say. If it's not WC principle in our previous generation, why can't we make it WC principle in our generation and also in the future generation? A + B > A, by adding B, A will stay unchange.

Also, all drills can be used to train application if you decide to take that route. You are the master, your style is only your slave. It's your choice that matter the most.

Wing chun is a principle based MA. If you just add random things to it as you see fit then you end up with a contradictory mess that no longer works.

You can't make wing chun drills like lap sau, chi sau train application for the simple reason that NOBODY FIGHTS LIKE THAT. If you are expecting it to happen in a fight you will be sorely disappointed.

It is bizarre to suggest that what was happening in the clip was anything other than someone's crappy wing chun breaking down when they treated chi sau like some kind of contest