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  1. #1
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    Bong never stays

    The old WCK maxim about bong sau never stays (bong but ting lau). Doesn't that really apply to every Wing Chun "hand"?
    If tan sau, bong sau, fook sau, gum sau, lan sau, etc. are actions rather than positions, then should all hands be in a constant state of motion?
    Otherwise you are just offering a lever for the opponent to control you?

    I know, perhaps you can say that your gum/lan is controlling the opponent so it "stays out", but would be interested in your thoughts.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    The old WCK maxim about bong sau never stays (bong but ting lau). Doesn't that really apply to every Wing Chun "hand"?
    If tan sau, bong sau, fook sau, gum sau, lan sau, etc. are actions rather than positions, then should all hands be in a constant state of motion?
    Otherwise you are just offering a lever for the opponent to control you?

    I know, perhaps you can say that your gum/lan is controlling the opponent so it "stays out", but would be interested in your thoughts.
    --------------------------------

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    Relative to tan and fok- bong is more "springy-IMO possibly hence the kuit

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    The old WCK maxim about bong sau never stays (bong but ting lau). Doesn't that really apply to every Wing Chun "hand"?
    If tan sau, bong sau, fook sau, gum sau, lan sau, etc. are actions rather than positions, then should all hands be in a constant state of motion?
    Otherwise you are just offering a lever for the opponent to control you?
    Agree! In my wing chun every hand is in constant motion!

  4. #4
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    Hello,

    I always viewed Bong as a transitional movement which was formed by the energy given.
    A Bong should deflect the force and change into something else, if you try to hold the Bong you leave yourself open to several counters.

    Having said this the Taun should also be formed by the energy given by the opponent.
    In an ideal situation the force of the incoming energy should form the Taun, if the incoming force is not enough then the Taun would continue forward and become a strike.

    Everything being in constant motion reminds me of something a Tai Chi guy said when asked how many movements were in his form?
    He replied that there were two; he started and then stopped, everything in between was a continuation of the fisrt movement.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    everything in between was a continuation of the first movement.
    I agree! the first movement being to strike and disrupt the opponent's center axis.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    bong sau never stays ...
    No matter how fast that you may move, there are always

    - before,
    - during, and
    - after.

    Each stage may be 1/10 second, 1/20 second, or ..., but that stage does exist. Before your arm and your opponent's arm make contact, if your opponent can detect your "intention", when you "intend" to raise your elbow (before stage), he can help your elbow to raise even higher, you will open yourself up and expose your chest. The same issue won't happen to Tang Shou or Fu Shou. The reason is simple, it's much harder to take advantage on the "intention" of Tang Shou and Fu Shou, it's much easier to take advantage on the "intention" of Bong Shou.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    if you try to hold the Bong you leave yourself open to several counters.
    Agree! But you don't need to "hold" your Bong Shou, your "before" stage with your opponent's "help" can open yourself up. It's just too easy for your opponent to "borrow" your force in Bong.

    It's like the Karate "upward block", when you punch and your opponent use "upward block" on you, if you use "upward block" to block his "upward block", you can open him up completely.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 07-08-2015 at 01:47 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Agree! But you don't need to "hold" your Bong Shou, your "before" stage with your opponent's "help" can open yourself up. It's just too easy for your opponent to "borrow" your force in Bong.It's like the Karate "upward block", when you punch and your opponent use "upward block" on you, if you use "upward block" to block his "upward block", you can open him up completely.
    I would have to disagree with the idea of your opponent "borrowing your force from Bong".

    Your Bong, as I was taught, is not an attack and does not have any force for the opponent to utilize.
    Rather the Bong is a shape formed by the opponents energy which redirects the force.
    So, if you are providing force of your own in Bong then, IMHO, you either are doing it wrong or do not understand the concept.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sihing73 View Post
    I would have to disagree with the idea of your opponent "borrowing your force from Bong".

    Your Bong, as I was taught, is not an attack and does not have any force for the opponent to utilize.
    Rather the Bong is a shape formed by the opponents energy which redirects the force.
    So, if you are providing force of your own in Bong then, IMHO, you either are doing it wrong or do not understand the concept.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Teachings can vary. IMO-if the structure and dynamics are well trained- you can attack with a bong !!!

  9. #9
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    I'd agree with both of your differing points - depends on what type of bong we're talking about and the contact point on the kiu/arm. More than one way to bong a cat!
    (ok, maybe that last part didn't come out as I had hoped LOL)
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajramusti View Post
    if the structure and dynamics are well trained- you can attack with a bong
    Bong Sau can deliver enormous offensive power to disrupt the opponent's center axis.
    Last edited by kung fu fighter; 07-09-2015 at 10:11 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter View Post
    Bong Sau can deliver enormous offensive power to disrupt the opponent's center axis.
    Sorry, but my understanding and application of the Bong would not entail using it to deliver a strike or the like.
    In my mind this would be something different and no longer be a Bong.

    Of course, I am open to discussing how a Bong can be used to deliver a strike without it becoming an Elbow strike.
    In my WC/WT we had several differing elbow strikes from various angles.
    In one of the Chi Sections we had a trap using the elbow but it was not a Bong, despite the shape being somewhat similar.
    Peace,

    Dave

    http://www.sifuchowwingchun.com
    Wherever my opponent stands--they are in my space

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